More Than a Ball Player
Mason Plumlee Talks the NBA, Entrepreneurship, and Why He Cares About Intentional Investing
Mason Plumlee won a national championship at Duke in 2010 and now plays as center and power forward for the Denver Nuggets. We got to sit down with him and talk Coach K, the Cameron Crazies, and his experience transitioning to the NBA.
But that’s not all. He talked to us about his entrepreneurial ventures, his investing philosophy, and his faith. We loved our conversation and think you will too.
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Mason Plumlee on Investing in Start-Ups
Episode Transcript
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the faith driven athlete. We've got a special guest today. Mason Plumlee, Mason and I share a love of Durham, North Carolina together as we both spent meaningful time in that Ashley Austintown and we also had something else in common. I'm a dad of three boys and Mason does have a little sister, but a lot of us will know from having watched him and his brothers compete at Duke that he is one of three boys. And I'm looking forward to hearing about Mason's faith journey and his basketball career. But Mason is I am thinking about siblings and sibling rivalry during this time of covid-19 quarantine with three teenage boys alone at the house with incessant trash talking and dunking over each other, etc.. Although, to be clear, we're dunking on an eight foot rim just to kind of normalize things here a little bit, maybe different than the Plumlee house. But what's it like growing up in a family with three competitive boys? And we were talking right before the program got started about the fact that you indeed had a high school high jump of six foot eight and then you're very quick to add in that from Miles is benefit that he actually jumped higher than you. What was sibling rivalry like in the Plomley house growing up?
Mason Plumlee: I would say that's me and my older brother were a year and a half apart. And as you know, having a lot of kids scheduling wise, we were the same age. You guys are going to play on the same team. You're going to go to the same camp where basically accommodating four different agendas. So me and Myles were always fighting with each other, like you said, very competitive. Marshall was a little far outside looking to compete, and we never took him seriously until all of a sudden we turned around in high school and his six, ten, six, eleven, and he's throwing elbows. So growing up, you know, he lagged behind. Of course, he was a lot younger than us, but it just made for the best childhood experience. And then, you know, our parents, they lacked now because we drove them up the wall when we lived under the roof. But now we're all very close friends, which we never would have guessed growing up. But it's fun to realize that after the fact, it's super cool.
Henry Kaestner: So that is the beginning. But thank you for being on the show today and excited to cover a whole bunch of different things, basketball and, of course, business with you. But let's start off at the beginning. It sounds like you grew up in a Christian environment. And just tell us about your growing up and the type of family that your parents led and what it's like growing up as a Plumlee.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, so we've been in Indiana since I was born, you know, small town, Midwest, America. My parents had really strong faith backgrounds. My mom grew up in the Catholic Church. My dad grew up in the church. And from a young age, you know, it was Sunday school. It was going to service. It was readings throughout the week. So they really laid a great foundation for it and really set us up as kids to make an ultimate decision later in life where it then becomes voluntary and it's not forced on you. So I'm forever grateful to them. You know, it was easy to know where you stood when you got in trouble because they're parenting from the same book. So it was a very great thing for them to do to raise this in the church, and I'm appreciative for it.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, very cool. So tell us about how your faith became personal to you as you grew up. So grew up in a Christian home. Of course, in church was part of the environment. But it feels like with many of the folks that we talked to somewhere along the way, their faith became personal for them. Wasn't their parents so much and that you really owned it? What was that like for you?
Mason Plumlee: You know, for me, it was a combination of college. And then also my first couple of years in the NBA, you know, I shared with Justin when we first got together that basketball became the most important thing. And I now realize that it's ever the most important thing. It's not going to be enough. And it took me struggling with that for a while and then also entertaining that the things that come with the NBA lifestyle, the access, the opportunity to do whatever you want to do, all of a sudden you have all this downtime that you didn't have. When you're going to class in college, I would say it's a little harder to get into trouble because, you know, you go to class, you go practice, you're so tired, you're crashing. If it's off season, the workouts are pretty intense.
So, you know, college, you're still. Pretty regimented, and it's great you're out on your own, but then when you enter the professional ranks, it's just a whole different ball game. So there's a lot of downtime. And, you know, guys are coming to believe I came in the league at twenty to twenty three, so I was even more mature. But, you know, guys are coming in at 19, 20 years old and you don't have a full day schedule. So there's just a lot of downtime. And how do you fill that time and how do you find space to still get in the word and get fellowship with other people? It's not always easy. So finding that became more important to me the longer I was in the league.
Henry Kaestner: So tell us a little bit about your time in college playing for the second best team in the state of North Carolina. Tell us about the time playing under that. Maybe the greatest basketball coach of all time.
Yeah, so seven and four. I got a lead with that because everybody knows the rivalry record. So, yeah, it's funny because you ask any of the guys, everybody knows what the record was in that rivalry. It was great playing for coach. You know, at the time when I met Coach who's coaching, I guess they call it the redeem team now. So just understanding, you know, what his reach was in basketball, the fact that Kobe and LeBron were allowing him to coach them and they were leaning on him, that was like a really cool thing to me. So I was just thrilled to go there. I was thrilled to play for him. I'm a better player for having gone there. And he challenged me in a lot of ways, you know, to the point of being out of the house and figuring out how to live on your own like he's just as valuable and managing that.
He's quick to share his experience of going to West Point and telling his mom, like, look, I'm fine. You don't need to check in on me all the time like I'm doing this. So he's more than a coach and anybody that's played farmers close to him knows that.
Henry Kaestner: Very cool. So what was it like when you're at Duke and you get a chance to win a national championship with your brother?
Mason Plumlee: That was special. That whole season was my freshman year as my brother sophomore year. It's a really talented team and it was a great moment. And it was something that, you know, you enjoyed the first year. And then I'm there another three years thinking it's going to happen again. And you're putting all you have into realizing that again. But looking back at it, I'm just I feel fortunate to be part of that team on the front end of my career because you realize that, you know, there's nothing like the NCAA tournament, the finality of it, the urgency of it.
Even in the NBA, you know, before this pandemic came about, we were planning something similar where I was going to be in season single elimination tournament in the fall to celebrate the seventy fifth year of the NBA. And I was so excited about it because there's really nothing like March Madness. And to come out, the last teams standing out of this field of sixty eight or sixty four, whatever it is, it was awesome and it was very, very cool.
Justin Forman: So while we're on that, we can't glance over the opportunity. We've got somebody from Duke here on this show. Talk to us about your favorite and crazy moments and help us understand when they're yelling. They're screaming, they're pointing, they're gesturing. Sure, you're blocking out the crowd. You're blocking out the stands to an extent. But there's got to be a limit where those guys cross it. And it's just hard not to.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, to me, the thing about the crazies that people don't appreciate unless you're in the arena at the game and can understand what they're saying or what they're writing on the whiteboards and all that is we have the stereotype of Duke for being nerds, overeducated, blah, blah, blah. Well, that's what the crazies are. They come into the game. They all have a scouting report on the personnel of the other team on the coach. It can be something that they post on social media. It can be a big shot that they missed. And then they're like the quirky fanbase making fun of you in a way that you don't even understand. So I can give examples, but.
Justin Forman: Show us. You got to give us a couple.
Mason Plumlee: Well, I mean, to me, the reference to the players wouldn't even make sense anymore. But like Gary Williams used to come in there and all they were chanting Sweat, Gary Sweat. And by the time he took off his jacket, he was drenched. I mean, there are a ton of those examples, but.
Henry Kaestner: I was there for the I hate to interject, but I have got to because I got a chance to go to many Duke Carolina games that Cameron is just the most amazing athletic experience in my life. And I was there when the guy in the Speedo did the whole thing with Jack Emanuel. I don't know if you guys can watch that on TV or not, but it was brilliant. It was. It really, obviously a really important game. And Jackie just clapping two free throws, not even close. And just the way that they get in your head and different creative ways is one of the things that even a fan from the opposing team just goes there and just fired up to hear what they're going to come up with because it's always creative. It's usually not mean. It's just very, very smart. And you mentioned something that I think is really important is that is some number of the opposing team don't even know exactly what they're saying, but they spent some amount of time, like I know I'm supposed to be really bothered by what they're saying, but what are they getting at? Right. And they're thinking about that instead of Mason Plumlee like driving down the lane and dunking on them.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah. And it's terrible that I can't give you guys good examples, because it was, what, six, seven years ago now. But like, I remember going to Maryland and they, like, found our home phone number. So they left a ton of messages on my mom's recorder. Like, that's not creative enough for me. The Ducky's the Cameron crazies there a little more calculated. And I just think they're the best fan base in America. So I'm riding with them all day.
Justin Forman: Who's scouting report is more valuable crazies or Coach K?
Mason Plumlee: Well, Coach K gets a little more angry if his doesn't get executed. So I'm going to go with Coach K,.
Justin Forman: So talk to us a little bit about that transition. We talked last week. You were just talking about high school basketball. You can't do anything wrong. You're the star of the school, the star of the campus. But something changes in college. You went to a big program with big expectations. Talk to us a little bit about that transition.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, it is a transition. And I think a lot of players experience it. Any time you're going to those type of schools or any college for that matter, you come in even if you happen to be the best player still coming in low on the totem pole. So, you know, you can earn respect in a couple of different ways. And it was an adjustment for me because in high school, you know, for the last two or three years, I was the best player. Shoot the ball, whatever you want, call your own play.
And it's just the talent discrepancy is so vast. And I enjoyed that role. Like, I love pulling along my teammates in high school. And then all of a sudden you get into college. And Josh, I was like, yo, what are you doing? I need you to do this. Stop doing that. And it was great to have someone like John to play with as a young player in college. But it's a transition. And, you know, like it happens at the NBA level, too. I've had different roles on different teams and I think the guys who last in the game are able to figure out how to make themselves valuable to a situation and adapt to what's needed. You know, and typically, coaches don't ask you to do anything that you're not capable of, but they will ask you to sacrifice. And, you know, that was the case of Duke. That's been the case that the three NBA teams I played for and, you know, if you're willing to do it, you can be part of something bigger than yourself, which tends to be more rewarding, I think.
Justin Forman: So you talk about your mentality, your mindset. You're somebody that has high expectations of yourself. How does that mesh with a high expectation program? Is it too much? Can you put too much pressure on yourself there in that season?
Mason Plumlee: For sure. You know, I think the media is what drives the business of basketball, the way it's covered, the way people tune in. And you have to reset sometimes and remind yourself it's just a game and we're an entertainment product. And yeah, we all want to win. We're competitors. But, you know, when I see some guy miss a field goal and he's being run out of town or the fan interferes with the Cubs game and gets to enter witness protection almost. So like, those are the things where it's like I like everybody wants to win and there's a lot riding on the game. But as a competitor, you just have to mentally put yourself in a place. I'm out here to execute, to do what I've trained and prepared to do. And you can never let the moment become bigger than you doing your job.
Justin Forman: So you're hitting on something that that I think Duke, especially Coach K, is known for. Its not just the X's and O's and what's on the court, but he's taught so much about leadership off the court. When you look back at some of the things he taught, just life lessons, leadership or the culture there, what are some of the things that really prepare you for the NBA in that different lifestyle?
Mason Plumlee: And there's so much, you know, if I could pick one thing, it would just be that he always preached that is bigger than you, even if you are the best player, which I was my last year. You know, it's a collective effort and team sports and in business, as I'm sure we'll talk about in general, it's the neatest things that you can accomplish or be a part of or bigger than yourself. So get over yourself. And he said that in a lot of different ways over the course of my career. But it was a consistent message and one that I'm glad he drilled into us as players.
Justin Forman: Let's talk a little bit about your faith journey. And just as you transitioned to the NBA, you go from something you talked about earlier, very structured, very much. You've got a schedule, you've got expectations. You move to the NBA and there's a little bit more free flowing nature to the schedule. What is your faith journey been like? What are some in some of the things that have helped you along the way?
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, well, to that schedule, I think, you know, not just your faith, but, you know, eighty two games, forty one of them on the road plus playoffs. It's no longer Monday through Friday. Go to church on Sunday. So I actually I'm glad I got introduced to you guys because right now media was shared by you guys and those are the things that you end up leaning on, whether it be online video content or podcasts or different things, to just stay encouraged or be challenged. And then what a lot of people don't know is before games, before every NBA game, 60 minutes before you have a chapel and arena. So both teams are welcome. Each team has a host chaplain, and it's welcoming to all religions. But it's Bible based. And, you know, we just come in. We spent 15 minutes together and it's just a nice time to level set. And, you know, even if you just come in and be thankful for the chance to play that night, it's like a really cool thing. So that's something I've leaned on in my six, seven year career.
Justin Forman: So let us into that a little bit. Obviously, you know, it's a unique setting. What's shared there is obviously private to the players and different things. But give us a sense for the type of things right before you're about to step on that court. What's going through the mind of you as a player and other players? What are you reminding yourself of? What truth seem to be the consistent things that you come back to?
Mason Plumlee: And well, one thing that I've leaned on, I can't even tell you where I heard it first, it might have been from Michalski, who runs athletes in action, who's actually the Team USA chaplain, but he always had this idea of an audience of one. And what I realized is like I was consumed with, you know, the media, the Twitter, the different people either praising or criticizing me. And, you know, that's for every athlete. It's out there. If you want to find it, it's there.
And, you know, going into the game now, I just say you have an audience of one. I'm not playing for a fan. I'm not playing for whoever I get my tickets to. I'm not playing for whatever else is. Just do your work hardly as a fan of the Lord and I'm going to give it my best run to win the race. And that's what it is.
Henry Kaestner: So something that a lot of people aren't going to know about you is that you have an entrepreneurial bent to you and that you're interested in business and you've got this cool website. This cool series of Founders Fridays talked to us about where that started for you, man.
Mason Plumlee: So it started a couple of years ago. First, we were producing, you know, four or five minute videos that featured a founder in their company. And it came from I have a lot of friends that started companies. So coming out of Duke, a lot of people graduate, moved to the New York area and a couple of my classmates started their own companies. And then there was a buddy in my building in Jersey City who started his own beverage brand. While I linked up with him, he was teaching me about startups. He was out of Babson, which I think all they do is create entrepreneurial program. Yeah. So he was educating me. He invited me to come by the coworking space where his office was at, and I spent a lot of time there. I met the founders of some other companies, companies like Great Brand who now sells shoes and Nordstrom. So my buddy was with Detox Water, which is an aloe vera beverage, and I was just really inspired by the vision. A lot of them were more mission based companies and then also their willingness to take on a path that when you look at the outside, the statistics are not in your favor. The likelihood of having a successful startup is not good. And these people who believe in themselves enough to put it all on the line and go for it anyway, I really admired that courage.
Henry Kaestner: So tell us some more about some of the stories and some lessons you learned. So you've been doing this for a while and it started off and interview some of these guys on the beverage side where some of the business truths that you've learned. And has there been any overlap at all with how you think about your basketball and endorsement business?
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, you know, I think one of the parallels is competition. There have been very few companies that I've met where it's like, hey, we're the only person doing this. You know, typically you have to beat out somebody for market share or for shelf space or for landing clients if you're a service business. So the competition is, I would say, right up there. Also, you know, the vision mapping is what I would call it. But like a founder saying like, hey, this is the moonshot. This is where we want to go, but these are the steps in order to get there. And, you know, it's never as easy as one, two, three. But, you know, they say, hey, you know, these were our goals for Q1. We didn't hit them, but this is what we learned and this is how we're going to get better. So, like, constantly evaluating yourself and understanding how you can improve and get better is something that I found very similar to being a basketball player, because after every game as a team and individually we're watching film, we're saying, OK, what worked? When you get in the playoff You play a team six, seven times. You're like, OK, you know what's working, what's not.
Henry Kaestner: So as a professional basketball player, I'm presuming that you don't have to buy your own basketball shoes like I do. That gives you extra money that you can use to invest. Tell us about the investments you've made with that basketball shoe money.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, well, my shoe contracts not paying for my investments. I've had to dip into the salary, but.
Henry Kaestner: Mine's not either.
Mason Plumlee: So investments I've played in the seed early stage acted as an angel, mostly in deals. I've been most inspired and acted on companies that truly believe that they can change the world or change life for somebody else. And that's lent itself more to like health care and medical technology. Now, there are a couple companies in that space that I've met on, but I don't write big checks. To me, it's more about being a role player on a cap table and on the team and seeing what value I can add after writing the check. And then, like anybody else, there are a few passage where like, hey, I like it. I believe in the founders. I see the value proposition, but I just there's nothing I can do for you after I write a check. So those are the buckets in my head that I put the deals into.
Henry Kaestner: So if you're like me, you look at your investments and you think of them a little bit as children. And so when somebody says, well, what's your favorite investment? You don't necessarily want to highlight one and say it's your favorite. But is there one that you think you might show us or talk about that? Kind of exemplifies your portfolio and the types of things you do may maybe something you've done in health care or something else like that.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, so here I said I play in the seed stage. The one deal that I did that was later stage was a company called Butterfly Network. And Butterfly was founded by a gentleman named Jonathan Rothberg. He achieved DNA sequencing on a semiconductor chip. He sold that business for upwards of seven hundred million dollars. And then he turned around and started an incubator in Guilford, Connecticut, called for catalyzer. Well, for catalyzer is basically trying to democratize health care device and technology and make it accessible and affordable to the world. So Butterfly was born out of saying, OK, you know, 70 percent of the world does not have access to medical imaging. Butterfly is going to bring that to the rest of the world. So what he did is not to get too technical, but what has driven the price point on ultrasound probes is the electric crystals on the probe. He achieved the same image resolution with the semiconductor chip, which takes the price point down. Like today, they sell the device. It's a single full body scanner at two thousand dollars. As they get on the main fabrication lines, they believe that they can sell the device for a thousand dollars, maybe even five hundred dollars. And, you know, while there's incredible business interest around the company, how they view the company is the device becomes the Trojan horse to the biggest medical image repository in the world. Big data, deep learning by all that is great. But this is me speculating. I feel like as a device company, they could have turned around and sold to Siemens, Philips, whoever. No problem. But I don't want to name names, but if you saw the players involved in the company, it was more foundations or initiatives that wanted the first probes to go to Uganda or Jakarta or these different places. So to me, when you talk about like something that I hope reflects my portfolio, it's a company where the mission is first, the business the second. We'll figure out how we make money and don't make a lot of money. There's no doubt about it. But the mission initially was to afford medical imaging to parts of the world that had never had it.
Henry Kaestner: So it's fascinating. As I listened to you, we invest in medical devices out of sovereigns. And so I know a little bit about it, maybe enough to be dangerous and fortunate to got some partners who know more. But I got to tell you that I don't know that anybody can throw around the technical terminology the way that you can. And it makes me think about what some of the locker room conversations might be like. Have you found that when the cameras aren't on, you guys do get together and share about what you're doing? And do you actually see your places having now really being a veteran in the league as a way for people to be thoughtful about how they put investment capital?
Mason Plumlee: Yes, so I think people would be shocked to be in an NBA locker room. In Portland. We had a lot of political discussions in Brooklyn, was more business in Denver. We talk about everything and anything when we talk. But to me, it's you'd be shocked. The guys like I'll tell you, I never knew. Like Chris Kaiman is a good friend of mine. He's built businesses that are so out of left field. You'd be like, how do you even get into that? Like, I think he told me about one business he built, basically setting up lights for big events. And like one of his accounts, like he had Michael Jackson's last tour before Michael passed. But they would go in and on the stage, like setup all the lights and rent the equipment or something. I think it builds it up to like a ten or fifteen million dollar business. Don't quote me on that. But I'm like, Chris, how I don't see you going to a concert like your country bumpkin from Michigan. But he's a great dude. And it's interesting to see the different things that guys get involved in. And it makes for a fun discussion that's typical.
Henry Kaestner: You know, locally, we're out here in Silicon Valley locally. Andre Iguodala is known as the big time seed investor getting involved in a lot of technology startups. Does being around New York and in Portland and Denver, do you get a sense for the different local startup ecosystems that are going on around as well? You get time to get out there and intersect with the incubators for sure.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, obviously he's done a great job and I know he's authentic about it. He's not just releasing books and doing articles. So people come to him like he's, from my understanding, is very involved in what he does. You know, to me, it's been interesting in the Denver ecosystem, I would say there's more like consumer product goods, you know, a lot of like food, beverage, natural food options. You know, I feel like New York, they want to have more of what the valley has, but more like FinTech. And, yeah, I don't know, I would say like Wall Street Solutions. And then it's just a weird place in general. I love living there. But as far as startups, there wasn't a whole lot I wouldn't even for young people go to retire, right? Yeah, exactly. So like, if you had, like, a homeless solution for something and probably for a while there, but yeah, it's been fun, you know, like with our schedule, even though I don't play in the other cities, like when we go to San Francisco, it's fun to take meetings and see what else out there.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, super cool. So what advice would you give to entrepreneurs?
Mason Plumlee: I don't have a whole lot. I would give it probably a Coach K analogy. He always talks about who's on your bus. You know, like as an entrepreneur, you decide it's a big responsibility, but you decide who your advisors are, who your investors are. And I see a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with, well, I'm undercapitalized. Do I really want to take this guy's money? What's his interest? What's his angle? And ultimately, everybody has one. But who do I want to enjoy this ride with and who can I trust? And so that be my advice to entrepreneurs and figure out who you want on your bus and stick to your initial mission. I think especially like now with technology. And, you know, our world is so ever evolving. Like everybody talks about a pivot, like I've seen technologies where they get pulled one hundred different directions when they realize what they're capable of. And I just think having a focus and being able to see something through first and have one successful business case before you explore the world of opportunities that are out there for your technology or nanomaterial or whatever it is for investors, I would just say invest in what you know and what you can diligence, what you can get high level expertize opinion on somebody that really understands the industry. Like, you know, I didn't invest in Butterfly because I thought it was great. I invested in it because every cousin I had that's a doctor.
My dad works for an orthopedic implant company. He's a lawyer. So he gave me some insight to the regulatory concerns with the FDA. Like I was really able to lean on a lot of professionals before I decided to make that bet, because everybody I mean, entrepreneurs are great. They'll make you think that whatever they're doing is the ultimate answer. You know how there's always the slide in the investor deck that has every other company over here? Oh, yeah. They're in the upper right. Yeah, they're on the upper right. And it's always the best solution.
So, like, and you only get better at that, I'm still trying to develop my eye for understanding, OK, what is truly differentiated, what is a great strategy and who am I betting on to pull this off. So, you know, that's a lot of advice, but I'm trying to figure this out like anybody else.
Henry Kaestner: When I was in Durham, Coach K would put together a leadership group every year and bring in some really, really neat guys. Four star generals and CEO dealt in just big banks and things like that. And I seem to get a spot. Maybe if somebody canceled, they look for local Durham business leader. And so I get to spend some really, really neat time with Coach K and really learn a lot about how to run a business, know I'm not an athlete. So the leadership lessons he had for me didn't apply to helping me think about how to do a triangle offense. But they did. Very much have to do with some of the things that you mentioned, which are how to get the right people on the bus and how to think about crafting the team that you want to go into battle with as you think about your business and investing career. Are there other things that you picked up from Coach K that you see building out beyond just the X's and O's of basketball?
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, I mean, if you saw how much X and O stuff Coach K does, people would be shocked, which made him great is bringing out the best in people. Maybe he wouldn't use this term, but he's like a master motivator. So he wants you to feel like he sees more in you than you feel in yourself. And he wants to be the one to bring that out. So, you know, after he's decided who's on his bus or for the season or for the business venture, then it's about how can I want to empower you to be your best and then to push you. And then also be there to support you when things aren't going so well. So his willingness to go to whatever place, whether it's calling you out in front of the team, having a one on one meeting, having you over to his house for dinner, like he engages with everybody differently. But it's all in the interest of the ultimate objective, which for us was always a championship. Right. So, you know, in business, maybe it's like each business has their own objective. But if you can get everybody on a collective goal, it can be a really cool thing to see.
Justin Forman: You talked about taking the bus and the importance of who's on the bus. Take the bus in a different direction for us. When you think about community, for you just in your career, your stage, what does that look like? I mean, you played with your brother for so many years at Duke and growing up, what is community and specifically on the faith journey look like for you and for me?
Mason Plumlee: It's team first. We spent so much time with our teammates, you know, seven, eight months a year, planes, busses, hotels. So that I would say that's even if you have a family in the NBA, you spend more time with the team. So that's the first part of my community. And then, you know, I have grown closer with my brothers, Marshall and Miles, and even Madeline is now working in Chicago. But I've made a point to have people in the town that I plan that I connect with and that have no interest in the basketball right or no interest in the business side of things that they've just been great to me.
Whether it's a home cooked meal or I hand them over to me, it's always good to have those relationships where you don't always have to be doing something. You can just be hanging out. You can, you know, watch a movie, enjoy dinner, enjoy company instead of because, you know, like the business stuff, it can be addicting. There's always another deal. There's always another game. There's always something to do. But having that friend group is important to me as well.
Justin Forman: Mason, we're grateful for the time. We always like to end each episode, just getting a peek into where people are in scripture, where God has them in the season. When you think about the season that we're in and just kind of where God has used there a verse or passage or something that's maybe coming alive in his word that you could share with our listeners.
Mason Plumlee: Yeah, it's I mean, given the shut down of everything, it's just been trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, because I think a lot of us don't understand what's going on right now or understand when we come back when we open up states. We don't know if we're going to play our season out. And it's really a place to be appreciative of because when else have you been so dependent on something out of your control? And that's the verse I would reference.