The Journeymen
Hear Luke and Josh McCown Share Their NFL Experience with a Combined 18 Teams.
Today we’re sitting down with the QB brothers Josh and Luke McCown, who have both travelled the NFL, playing for a combined 18 different teams.
They talked to us all about that, what their sibling rivalry looks like, and how their passion for faith and football has guided their life stories. As always, thanks for listening.
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Episode Transcript
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the faith driven athlete. If you've been following our program for a while, you might know that Justin and I are both parents. In my case, I've got three boys and this is a special edition for us because we've got Luke and Josh McCown with us. And guys, we're so glad you're here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having us on. Can't wait for my boys to hear this later on. Let's start off in just thinking about them as they're kind of out there playing basketball right now here in the background. Let's talk about what life was like growing up in your house. What was it like in your family? What was the beginning of your athletic journey? What was you beginning your faith story? Bring us from the beginning. Maybe Josh can start. And Luke filter in please.
Josh McCown: Yeah, well, I think if we were outside playing basketball like your boys, I think the theme of ours was it started with a game and ended with a fight. We never had a final four, you know, we had a final fight and it's gonna win. So we like to compete. So that was to the component sports and competing. And those are staples in our house growing up for sure. Parents love sports and, you know, dad love to work and work hard. And then we're obviously a part of a local church. That was a tremendous blessing in our formation as young people and in our spiritual formation. So you could kind of mold, you know, our lives and our bringing out of those three things, sports, competing work in church. And we were doing one of those three things at all times, pretty much.
So it was a great house to grow up in, you know, just to have a couple of brothers to go out there and do those things with. It was a blessing and very fortunate in that regard. And, you know, it was awesome to know to share that and a great family and a close knit family and, you know, to get to watch my parents model those things that they were teaching us, you know, about life and about the things that we're learning on Sundays in church. So we're thankful for that. And that's kind of the abbreviated version of it. Luke, probably give you a longer version or his viewpoint over being a third brother, but it ran downhill I know that much. So he got the brunt of it. A lot of times his version may be different.
Henry Kaestner: Well, Luke, tell us about that. You know, a lot of has been watching this last dance documentary about Michael Jordan, and he talks about how the competitiveness of throwing it down with his brother made him so angry, they'd often fight after playing one on one. Sounds like some of that happened here. What did competition looks like in your family.
Luke McCown: Absolutely. There are very few things that the great MJ and I have in common. But one of the things that resonated with me, just like you were just saying, was when Larry is older brother, if you ever beat him, he was coming right back at you. And usually with a fight, it was he wanted to get revenge on that loss somehow. So for me, it was just like, gosh, that it started with a basketball game that ended with me getting beat up. It didn't end in a fight. It ended in way.
Henry Kaestner: Does that mean that you won? Does that mean you beat him?
Luke McCown: Probably not. But it means that I would claim that there was some kind of inconsistency in the score that proved I lost.
Josh McCown: That's the best end of it, because when Randy, our older brother, Randy, would beat me, I would get frustrated. and I could either fight randy, I could just look around, and go has anybody seen luke. Where's Luke? Let's go from there. And I go challenge Luke to a game. I know you know what? I'm going to go 500, but knowing me, I will lose to my older brother and beat my little brother and I'll be all right, you know. So that was kind of a process so Luke kind of got the wrong. And every time I said it's slowed down. But we sure do have a lot of fun competing for sure fairly.
Luke McCown: We had a lot of fun and it really developed a relationship. You know, these two guys we're talking about, Randy and Josh, these are my best friends in the world and I don't have a lot of those. You know, the profession that we've been blessed to be a part of lends itself to a lot of temporary friendships, especially when you're journeyman quarterback and you get to spend a lot of time with a lot of people in short, bullet, and generally you move on from place to place. And so what a lot of those hours spent on the basketball court or driveway court, if you will, or the front yard throwing the football was building relationships with your family. And to this day, that serves as something that's incredibly valuable. The money that I put a lot more weight in than just a casual conversation or even a meaningful conversation with somebody else. I know that my family's always gonna be there. And that's how it was growing up. Family was paramount to developing as a young man, as a young believer, as an aspiring athlete and somebody that wanted to work hard and be good at whatever craft we pursued. And that's kind of how life was for us grown up.
Henry Kaestner: So what was it like as you guys proceed beyond basketball plan and find each other as your careers progressed as adults and staying in touch with each other? So many of us are fascinated by the siblings who go into the craft together, the Mannings or the Williams sisters. What was it about? What's it like when you guys get together as adults as you're starting to think about your professional careers? Was there something about your bond that made you better on the field because you went into each game maybe with more background and more perspective? What's it look like?
Josh McCown: Yeah, so somebody who kind of sees life, you know, similar lenses, you so understands how your mind works, I think. And so, you know, whether it's talking over schemes and different things like that that we discuss. But you just. There's a trust built over years of growing up in the same house. And you understand that as there's a dialog going on about your profession and about your craft, that it's unique because that person genuinely cares about your ability to grow in that craft. Not saying that can happen outside of a sibling, but it's unique when it's inside that bond because of that, because of the upbringing, because maybe Luke can speak to something that he knows, because he knows my history better. And so as opposed to having to get to know me, to help me grow in my craft and vice versa, we can help each other because I know his history. So I think that's critical. I think it's important to look, when you give people the phone on a Monday after a bad game and call somebody. You know, we willing our spouses, you know, your mom never tells you you had a bad game. But it's unique in this profession to have somebody that grew up in your house that you can call on guard duty and play well or whatever, and they can talk you through it. And so I think for me, that's when a special needs family to go through that and kind of talk about the things that maybe not everybody can know and even sometimes done by your family can understand what you guys can understand.
Henry Kaestner: Luke, did you watch a lot of Josh's games and vice versa?
Luke McCown: Yeah, every one of them. Every one of them. And usually more than once. As the third, my mindset was always, hey, if they can do it, I can do it, too. I always took kind of the stance of what can I learn, you know, what can I learn from what they're doing and what Josh and Randy are doing, what they're pursuing, how they're working, and then what the results are. And so what can I glean from being in this third spot as a sibling? You know, it's served me in a greatly advantageous way and that my brother got to go through before I did. And so a lot of the things that maybe were mistakes or even successes I got to learn from. I get to sit back and watch. I mean, it's gone all the way back to the recruiting process in high school and kind of how that all played out.
And so, you know, when it came down to playing a professional sport where, you know, a lot is riding on every snap of the ball, literally as a quarterback especially, it was such a blessing to me going into, let's say, my rookie year, even going into my first training camp. I'm like, hey, Josh, what should I expect? Like, I'm a fourth round rookie. You know what a refs going to look like. Yeah, that's my expectation. What's that going to be like? How should I prepare what's in my mindset be going into this thing? And that allowed me to confidently approach each situation as a young player, as a pro, as a collegiate athlete, because I felt like I had a leg up already because I had somebody going through it. And again, it's somebody that I knew, somebody that I competed against, somebody that I grew up with. And so, again, my mindset was always, hey, if he can do it, I can do it, too. Because we grew up on the same driveway basketball court. And so it allowed me to be very confident every time I took the field because I watched every game that he played.
Justin Forman: That's great. So I want to pivot a little bit. You guys have talked a little bit, I think briefly, just about journeyman in that conversation and the team that you guys have played for. You know, sometimes it's tossed around in a sports talk show and it might be looked at as somebody that's moved around to different places and maybe not. But at the same time, you can look at it as a badge of honor for somebody that's played in the league for so long. How do you guys embrace or interpret that label, Journeyman?
Luke McCown: Well, yeah, I think you hit it on the head. I think that for me, it was something that, you know, I think Josh will say the same thing early on. When I say early on your first three or four or five, six years in the league, you're still trying to establish yourself and look for that opportunity and hopefully have that breakout year and become somebodies guy in the face of a franchise. That's what we all wanted to be. And the fact of the matter is, there's only 32 of those spots and there's, you know, a handful of guys, especially as we were coming up, there were about eight or nine guys that are going to be Hall of Famers that had those spots secure for the next 15 years. So there are really only like twenty spots, you know, or twenty one spots that you were hoping to be that guy one day. And as situations came and when or circumstances changed or what have you, it became, you know what, I'm gonna be one of the best 64 in the world. And yeah, it might be for this team one year and for that team another year or josh out both that spanned five plus teams. But what that means is I'm still here. What that meant for me was somebody still believes in my talent and my work ethic and my ability to navigate a locker room and be helpful to the team. And so it was a badge of honor. It was. You know what? Yeah. And I'm a 36 year old quarterback that still comes out here and competes every day. And somebody sees value in that. And, you know, when I did decide to retire, when I did decide to walk away and I have five or six jerseys hung up on the wall. All that means to me is that I pushed and I pushed every situation every time, because as a journeyman, you're always kind of on the bubble. And so it's something that, you know, you have to grit your teeth and adore and pursue that because you want it that bad.
Josh McCown: I'm agree with Luke. And I think, you know, as a person of faith for me and Luke would agree like to me the markers of, you know, growth and, you know, the game, that they're markers of growth. And we've got to stretch our faith. Whether it's been out of the league or coming back to ACL injuries or whatever, where you're sitting there with this dream guy continues to provide and give you opportunities. And then when those up to some preparation time that you put in to be ready to go and the faithfulness that you have, that the doors will be open. So I think that's, you know, early on, just like Luke said, you want the long term franchise quarterback. Everybody wants that. That's not everybody's journey, you know. But for some of us, it's different. But I think I look back and go, man, those markers and markers are girls and say, that's right. Yep, I'm alive. So I'm very thankful for. And I embrace it. And I'm you know, I'm proud of it because I think sitting where I am now and the person that I am would be vastly different had I been a franchise quarterback. And you never know what those kind of things bring on of people and different things. And so he was the best thing for me and allow me to grow. So I'm thankful for,.
Justin Forman: You know, it's great to see the badge of honor that it is and how you guys embraced it to be a part of such a unique fraternity there in the league. Josh, I think I heard you recently talking about that process. And just what is it like to get behind a logo? Could you riff on that for a little bit for us?
Josh McCown: Yeah. You know, that's what I love about team sports, is just that we get to get behind a logo. All right. You know, this shows on the Eagles and the wings on the helmet and we've been on different teams. Right. You're into that logo. And so I think as I look at creation, as I read the Bible, you know. As best I can understand it. That was the figure of Jesus. When fate was the logo that God intended for us to get behind and unite us when the world was divided, we didn't understand how to relate to God. And so I believe society and everything. If we can get behind something, we can function in our highest and best. And teams allow you to do that. Sports allow you to do that, because no matter where you're from or socio economic background, you come in that locker room and you throw that jersey, only the helmet on and you're for that logo and all of that other stuff. Right. And you're all for that. And you get hopefully the best lardons of everybody sells because they put their selfish desires away. And it's all about what you can do to advance a logo. Make it better. Help us win. Bring dilutes the organization. And I think as people of faith, I would hope that we would look at it the same way. You know, Paul talks about that and Gronk swells the body of Christ. And just how we serve different functions. And and so that's the idea. And that's the idea. But getting behind a logo is just whatever my function is, I get to serve. And that maybe being in the front, that maybe being the backup would be an adjournment. But brain value every day that you step on that route for that logo. And I can't tell you that you're going to be paid more money until you just know that for us. And I don't speak for Luke. But I know that when we lay down at night, I had peace at peace knowing that I gave everything I could to my team and tried to help my team advance and do the best. And I believe that's the same in a faith walk, is that you can do everything you can to encourage and help people in the team, humanity in general, and bring good to the world. I don't know that your main town will change. I don't know that a lot of things will change. But I believe that you can have peace that. And so that's a thought to me about getting behind a logo on this block. I appreciate these sports so much.
Justin Forman: Luke, you had mentioned something earlier when you talked about the role of a backup. I don't know that there's a book out there, the backup quarterback, and talking about that role and breaking down some the characteristics. But you talked about something that's not just on the field, but what teams look at for the leader that you're going to be in the locker room and the culture that you're going to bring to that. When you think about combat role of the backup quarterback, how do you break down some of the key ingredients of that position?
Luke McCown: So it really is about serving the logo. It's about getting behind the pursuit of something bigger than yourself. And I think that's what organizations look for in a backup is a guy that's selflessly willing to serve and yet always ready, always ready to do what's asked of him when he's called upon or when he's thrust into a position. The other is a really fine line for a backup quarterback in the NFL. Have enough confidence to be the guy when called upon. But enough humility to allow that other guy the starter to be who he's supposed to be, the position that God's allowed him to be in and support that wholeheartedly. And that's a hard thing to do because we all want to play competitive. We want to be the player. But it's really taking on that role of servant leadership is trying to lead a locker room and navigate a locker room of, hey, come on, guys, you know, let's all pull the same direction for this one big thing. And yet, how can I serve this guy that I really wish I kind of had his job and yet how can I make sure that I'm helping him be the absolute best he can be? Because the logo is bigger than me and it's a special place. And when you accept that, I know there was a point in my career and I remember talking to Josh outside of a hotel in Carolina and I remember talking to that Saturday night. We had just gotten to a hotel in Carolina, going to play there on Sunday. I believe it's still in Jacksonville at the time.
And I remember saying, you know what? This is why God has me here, because I've been through two ACL injuries and kind of come back from both of them and at the time didn't have enough starting experience under my belt. You know, I think at the time it started only seven or eight games in my entire career. And yet I still had teams pursuing. They wanted me to be a part of their locker room, their organization, their team to help there.
And there's a lot of times backup quarterbacks that last for a long time are generally guys that had opportunities to start and for one reason or another didn't pan out quite right. But they have 25, 30, 40 starts under their belt. And I never had more than three starts in a season. And like I said, three, two ACL. And so I finally realized at some point, you know, God has me here for a different reason than football. And so my identity changed and I became a lot more comfortable with the position of backup because I knew my role wasn't to pursue or chase or at least hope for, certainly worked towards. And that fire never goes out. But it wasn't to pursue this dream of being a franchise guy. It was to serve in the role that God placed me in 30 circumstances that I didn't care anything about. And I honestly didn't want to have to go through them. But God allowed me to go through them to bring me to a point of saying, you know what got my identity? And this has changed. And I'm good with being a backup now because. You placed me there. And so I think it takes the type of spirit, the type of heart that genuinely seeks to serve the greater cause for the organization, for the team and pursue something truly bigger than yourself.
Henry Kaestner: Guys, so much is made of NFL quarterbacks and what you are doing. And and there's some amount of adulation and leadership of a team. And in your family, I know that you each are very much family men. And yet I also know that you're also really serious about your marriages, too. And I'd love to hear from both of you. I know Luke that. Katie, your wife, who's got a very vibrant ministry. She's a prolific blogger and talking about what it's like to be a mom of six kids and leading with faith. What's it look like for you to support her? And then maybe, Josh, you could just follow on as well, please.
Luke McCown: Yeah, absolutely. My wife is far more talented with her words and writing than I would ever be throwing a football. And that's the honest truth. God's given her a great ability to communicate and particularly communicate with script. In her writing and shameless plug here, she's got her first Bible study being published on Proverbs 31 25. It's called. She Smiles Without Fear of the Future. And it's coming out in January of twenty twenty one. David C. Cook is the publisher. But she's been a writer and speaker for Proverbs 31 Ministries for a few years now. And you referenced earlier nobody's written a book about the backup quarterback. Well, she started to she actually presented a rough draft to a couple of publishers seven or eight years ago to talk about the role of the career backup and not necessarily about football, but about how God uses our positions and maybe not specifically how we want them to be, but they can be incredibly impactful in the role that God has placed his hand. But there was a situation just a year ago and she had her Bible study proposal already and ready to submit and ready to, you know, parade out in front of some publishers and see what kind of traction it gained. And matter of fact, we were in Carolina she that Proverbs 31 driven conference calls. She speaks and it's the Writers and Speakers Conference that Proverbs 31, at least, that Cercas puts on each year. And Katie's been a presenter at these conferences. She's hosted breakout meetings before. And so. We were there and she's going to meet with a handful of publishers and her and I have a conversation in the parking lot. And she looks at him with kind of tears in her eyes and she's having second thoughts about this. I just don't know. I mean, there's going to be so much on our plate. We've got six kids and there's I don't know that I can juggle all this. And in her words, she said, you may not remember this, but you basically, like, put your foot on my side and push me out the door. And she said, it means so much to me to know that you see the calling that God has placed on me to minister to these women and your support of it and the support in ways that aren't really celebrated. They're the moments when she's on a zoo meeting with Proverbs or when she's on a zoo meeting with her editing team or whatever it is. And I'm corralling the children and making sure they're fed, making sure they're getting launch or making sure their showers and bads and on the way to bed. And so it's being able to carry the torch for our home. The way that she did for me when I was playing football, while she's pursuing this thing that's so big and something that God has placed her in and give it a great favor and great opportunity and to see it. And she's worked so incredibly hard on it, something that she's dreamed about for years. And so being able to support her and that being able to champion her when she has her moments of doubt, when she struggles with feeling like she makes the cut. Being able to be her champion and say, you can do this. It's just it's very fun for me to see how the roles change, because so many times I came home from a rough day at training camp or a bad practice or a one four six outing with interceptions to go and and her to say don't give up. You can do this guy got you here for a reason. And being able to support her that way really, really means the world for me to be able to get to serve her like that the way that she did for me for 13 years in the NFL.
Henry Kaestner: That beautiful.
Josh McCown: Yeah. we're Probably a little different. But, you know, I'm just gonna love and serve her as best I can. I think we're entering a great season. Obviously we're back together. You know, it's the season. It's been a long time. Round one another. And so we're still trying to fill in where I'm supposed to and not step on toes and screw up schedules that she's created. And, you know, I think constantly and so on. The beautiful things about marriage is that you're always discovering different ways that you can love and meet their needs. And in doing so, sometimes the anxiety comes you realizing how you failed to meet it in other areas, you know, other ways for a long time. And so I think I appreciate the challenge and just the aspect of discovering that and keeping things transparent with one another and communicating well. And, you know, the process in which we go about those things grow and get better at something. It's all good stuff. I think every day is a fun opportunity to learn more about your spouse and in turn learn more about yourself and then ultimately grow your relationship with God. Because this institution of marriage, I think, is one of the premier tools that God uses to explain how much he loves us. And then one chapter. So I would say that, you know, we are continuing to do that and it's a good tool for me. And I've learned so much about my relationship with God, with how not good I am being a husband sometimes. And so I'm thankful that my wife producer led me through some of those things. And we can grow together because it's a fun journey.
Justin Forman: Josh, I want to turn it to you. Talk a little bit. When you get what Luke's talking about and you have that humility, talk about some of the relationships that that's opened up when there's now this comfort and this ability to see I'm rooting for that guy ahead of me. I'm really being able to do that. Talk about some of the teamwork and relationships that's blossomed out of that.
Josh McCown: Yeah, I think you just from a practical stance as a backup quarterback. The franchise guy has got so much on his plate. You know, he gets so many people and organizations pulling from different directions. So to be a resource to help him. You know, hey, man, you know, this guy's got some questions about this ruthless receiver or whatever. And so you're sometimes connected. You're another set of eyes and ears for him to kind of, you know, go out a week, manage the game plan. And so I think in that regard, you have a chance to serve. You serve in the starting quarterback. You're serving the offense of the ball. And ultimately the team. And when you get to do that, you connect on a real level. And it's fun, especially if you have young receivers transitioning with you, that this year in Philly when we had some injuries. And so you're having extra meetings and doing extra things and helping guys make the most of their opportunity. And when you do that, it creates the bond with you and that individual that you can carry forever, because you know that this is our moment. This is their chance. So you're there in that role to be able to help them and serve them. And so I think from a relational standpoint, that's one of the coolest things to me, is those relationships that are born out of, you know, genuine, like need. You know, I'm saying like, this guy's got to me. He's trying to further his career is trying to better himself. And, yes, opportunity to play now. And so you're helping him learn the playbook. You're helping him understand that starting quarterback better, whatever those things may be. So those things are special to me. And it's cool to look back at different times. Your career. Look at guys. They're still playing right now and you go, man, you know, we were there for six months. We had a season together or two seasons together, wherever the case may be. And from where he started to where he is now, he's a little further along. And maybe you had something to do with that is really cool. So I think the relationship part is huge. And I think it's one that you're a little bit more privy to as a backup quarterback maybe, and sometimes even more than a starter, because, as I said, the starter has so many more things that are grabbing his attention, dealing with media and so on. So in that role, you really get to kind of branch out and connect even more with the whole team and build those relationships that are special in that last a long time.
Henry Kaestner: Josh, you threw your first ever playoff pass at age 40. What do you anticipate being the big milestone when you hit 50? So many NFL quarterbacks are serious about their Christian faith. Thing about Roger Staubach, another one. Why do you think that Christ followers are over indexed as NFL quarterbacks?
Luke McCown: Wow, that's a great question.
Josh McCown: That's a great question. I guess, you know, I don't know.
Luke McCown: We had so much riding on us there, the game we need all the help we get.
Josh McCown: You know, quarterback, there's a lot of things pulling at you and a lot of things riding on that position. And I think, you know, you have to have your identity grounded in something. And so maybe that's what draws guys to it. And now there's a kind of a beautiful paradox of humility and strength in following Jesus, you know? And just the aspect of serving and leading and those things that I think you can do as a quarterback, you know, and you can lead a franchise. There's only 32 of you in the world. You know, I started the franchise quarterbacks. You can lead a franchise and yet still serve the last guy on the roster by helping him study for a game. And so I think there's those things that maybe lend themselves to those traits and maybe guys that grow up in faith or part of faith, it helps them understand their role better. So that's a fair question, though. I don't know if that answers it well for you.
Henry Kaestner: It absolutely does. It sounds like it's a big part of your identity and that you'd be lost without it and stepping on the field without that faith. Sounds like you probably wouldn't have had a 20 year career.
Josh McCown: Yeah. I mean, I think that's fair. Like I said, as I mentioned earlier, you know, I look back at all the jerseys and those are markers for me at growth and in trust. And as Luke said, you know, that Saturday night before game, there was a lot of anxiety that goes on for players. And that's real, you know, and a lot of times we say grit your teeth and tough it out and all those things and how to process those things. And I think more than anything, just like any other, you know, thing in life, it's the meshing of, you know, what you expect to happen on that Sunday and then what may happen, what reality is and the gap in between. And as follows, Jesus, we put faith in that gap. And it's faith that not that it's going to go well necessarily, but that regardless of the outcome, my soul will be well, I will have peace. And then that thought of understanding that no matter what happens, I will still have peace pours into you, more peace to be able to go out and execute. And so I definitely think that's one of the things that has guided me. You know, I've been my prayer a lot of Saturday nights and a lot of Sunday mornings, and I'm not looking. I've exchanged texts, you know, in that regards before. One of us may be ready to play. So for sure, for me, a huge part of the journey has been the faith aspect.
Henry Kaestner: So, Luke, tell me more about that. Josh has mentioned some of the text you guys might throw back and forth. Tell me about what it's like to encourage each other, not just his professional quarterbacks and faith, but also as believers and being able to encourage each other in your discipleship, in your faith. What did that look like for you to.
Luke McCown: Yeah. Listen, I mean, there's a couple of constants in life, and the one thing that's constant is life is never constant, it always changes. And you could say the same for, you know, the life of an NFL quarterback or journeyman, if you will, is that is constantly changing. You know, maybe there's an injury or, you know, maybe this week you didn't feel as comfortable in the middle ribs, maybe as you did the week before or previous weeks, or there's injuries and there's things that you're trying to help the starter navigate with the game plan or what have you. And so it would always be a mess. They ready, you know, big stage, big opponent and just be ready. And the thing, again, that was always reassuring for me was that I had a brother who had, you know, two years, my senior in the NFL. In terms of years, he's seen everything already. And so there was no amount of dialog concerning that week's opponent or the preparation of the game plan or the injury report or that he or I didn't experience or didn't know. Hey, man, I'm back's really not feeling very good going into this game to pray for me, you know. And really exchanging those feelings and knowing that these words aren't just falling this year on somebody says, hey, yeah, I'm praying for you or whatever. They're going to somebody that knows that injustice and that anxiety is real, you know, on Saturday nights. And there's a lot of times for a backup. There's like who? I don't know if I'm fully prepared. I like I'm going to go out and believe that I'm prepared.
But, you know, backing up Drew Brees for four years, I can count on one hand the amount of reps I got during a week over four years. And so the anxiety of am I really ready? Was real. And being able to text or call or have a conversation with a guy that knew everything about that just gave me an extra sense of there's somebody going through that with me. There's somebody that knows that feeling and that reassure me he brought a lot of peace because I knew I saw the transition for him as well, you know, through his career of whether it was Arizona or Detroit or Oakland or, you know, Miami. Carolina, I saw that transition going from man. I'm pursuing this start and gig two. I'm going to give everything I have to being the best teammate and best role player that I can be. And I'm I'll let the rest of the cards fall where they may. And so it reassured me to know that, you know what I see where he's placing his trust and I see his commitment to serving his role the best way he can and God's honoring that. And so, like he said, regardless of what happens during those three and a half hours on the field, and I can lay my head down at night knowing that I'm right where God has me. And when God wants it to change, it'll change. And when God's ready to pull the plug, so to speak, on it, it'll be pulled no matter what. I just I remember going through a kind of weird situation it when I played for Tampa that play there for four years and had opportunities to start and played really well and really had my most extensive opportunities to become a starter. While in Tampa, playing for Coach Gruden in 2008 was a contract year for me in the last four games of the season in 2007, I played really well and so there was a lot of back and forth with contracts and whatnot.
And there was a point later in the year where I was supposed to start a game and if any, my teammates on that 08 team didn't know this already. I was going to start that game. Jeff Garcia had been hurt and I had practiced all week to play against Atlanta that Sunday. And we're in pre game warm up and Coach Gruden comes off as a role play somebody else. Whatever the reasons were, and I have my own thoughts about it, but I play this other guy out and tell that story. And guys, guys, take a step back and go, are you kidding me? Yeah, but listen, it works out so perfectly because God simply used Coach Gruden as a tool to accomplish his purposes for me in my life. You know, when Jesus stands before pilot and policies, don't you know I have the power to free. And Jesus looks as you're simply my tool. You only have the power that I give you to do what I want you to do. And so that's how I viewed the things. And so being able to share that with somebody, understanding those situations, that changed so quickly. And yet our identity is not found in what we do on Sunday. It's found in Christ alone. And so being able to share that feeling and that sentiment with somebody that truly understands the ins and outs of what I'm going through. And it brought tremendous peace. No matter what happened on Sunday.
Henry Kaestner: So, Luke, there's been a good amount of conversation on this podcast about following in your brother's footsteps, so have you planned your un-retirement and what team you want to go for?
Luke McCown: I plan my un-retirement every day. I practice with boys and I'm trying to. And it's no more than two or three times a week. I'll go on to say, Hey, Kate, my wife Katie. I think I think I might throw my name out there and just it, you know, put out some feelers and say, what have I still got? And she rolls her eyes. Yeah. And then, you know, I'll wake up the next day in the back of a kind of stiff and soldier. Are you still gonna put out feelers, though? You know, listen, I love the game. And, you know, I told Josh this, that your first year out, especially your first year out. Every Sunday feels like a funeral service. And that might be dramatic, but it's really, really hard. you love the game that much. You've done it for so long. And it was hard to watch. There was literally a feeling in your spirit of like, man, I miss this so much. You miss that pursuit of something that's so big and you know you can't do it by yourself.
And that's what was so great about that game and about like does that while ago, embracing that logo and getting behind it was that pursuit of something that was so big and so awesome and so almost untouchable that, you know, you can't do it alone. And you have to have guys come alongside you and you have to have help and you have to band together as a team. And so then I think that ship has sailed for me. I think God has moved me into a different space of life. I've got six kids that I'm absolutely in love with and they will do life with now. And God's been very gracious to allow us to be in a position where we can spend a lot of time together. And so pouring into them and trying to see my four boys and two girls become young sons and young daughters of God, and watching them walk with the Lord and worship around the table is things that we didn't always get around to when I played.
And so I wouldn't give these times up for anything right now. And so, you know, you'd love to play and throw a ball 67 yards the other day. I felt pretty good about it probably when they did and downhill. But I played in 67. So you always feel like they'll go. But there are things that God brought me to now that I wouldn't give up for all the money in the world.
Henry Kaestner: Josh, how far can you still throw the football? Sixty eight?
Josh McCown: Yeah, if I threw it twice.
Henry Kaestner: So, Josh, back to you. Tell you about next steps. When you were with the Eagles this most recent fall, your significant contributor, a really important organization, and you also coached high school football. If I've got that right. So do you get playing? You get coaching and you get broadcasting. What do the next couple of years look like for you?
Josh McCown: I was a triple threat there for a second. That's right. I'm certainly No. One. Let's go. You know, and I really enjoyed the broadcasting. So fun. You just talked a game and be around it. The ability pursue the measurable at the end of the week, the win and the loss is not necessarily there as much, obviously. So that's a little bit different. But it's still fun to help educate people on this game that we love. And so that part was fun. But when Philly call and it was a great opportunity to go be with an organization that had success and won a championship. All of my ventures, you know, except for maybe Chicago was mostly startups where you had a new head coach and so you didn't have a chance to be with an organization that had been so accomplished and, you know, kind of looks at the same thing. My kids and everybody was like, man, you got to go. And so we worked out, you know, I'd just like to know it's coaching high school football and wanting to do that pursuit. And so I was in Philly during the week, but on Fridays in the season, the Friday Praxis little shorter. So I was able to go fly up down here to Charlotte, coach the high school game and then get back that night. So I didn't miss any meetings in Philly and was able to be here on Friday and then some Monday and Tuesday Praxis here at the high school as well, and the day off in Philly. So that was a blast. It was a lot, but it was fun and it was a ton of football on all levels. And, you know, if I could have squeaked a college game, you know, on Saturday, I would have really been doing it. But, man, it was a lot of fun. I'm very thankful to Philly and the organization for let me be a part of that. See how they do things. And then at the same time, I think more than anything you take away from it, it's just that we talked about earlier. It just reminds you that no matter the level that you're at, the idea that you can bring guys together and pursue the same thing and pursue with high standards and with process oriented thinking is fun. And that's what I enjoy being a part of. So. Oh, and it translates to a billion dollar industry or to, you know, to Friday nights in Charlotte. So I was thankful to be in those worlds. And, you know, I don't know what's next, but this fall, a special.
Justin Forman: Guys, we're incredibly grateful for the time of both you guys made to be here and how fun it is to have you guys on at the same time together. What we'd like to do at the end of each episode is just point back to scripture. Maybe there's a passage of verse, something that's coming alive to you here this week or this morning to see you could share that. Just bless our listeners with that salute. Why don't you start us off? Where does God have you in the season?
You know what I mean? I think especially with what our world is experiencing right now with Covid 19 and the uncertainty that revolves around that and kind of this log down downright and things that have kind of centralized everyone to their homes. I think that it's paramount that we take advantage of that and our families or simply with our time with the Lord, send a text out to guys that are close to me and to my brothers and I. My dad, couple of weeks ago, they just said, you know what I mean? I think this is a time where sometimes we're not very good at limiting the distractions so that we can hear God. Sometimes we're not good. We want to. It doesn't mean we don't want to. Sometimes we're not very good at doing it. And I think if we don't sit back and take notice that, you know what, Little League Baseball for my boys is not going on right now. And seven or seven football is not going on right now. And dance competitions and soccer from our girls is not going on right now. There is no practices. So we're not being pulled in so many different ways. I want to take advantage of the time that we get to spend together and to really hear God and maybe what he wants to share with us. I was watching Frances Chan, the Gospel of Mark this morning on Right Now media, and I know just as a part of that and well done. Really, really love that. But I was watching his Gospel of Mark this morning. And we as a family have been watching the chosen on our Roku. And so that's kind of been our family worship each night. And so Francis is talking about the gospel mark and God calling his disciples and verse fifteen. And Mark one. Jesus says the time has come. And he elaborates on that. Then this is basically gone. All right. Enough is enough. It's time now. And so I just a couple of things that hit me about that were that it was Jesus's way of that appointed time. It's not later. It's not next week. It's not in a little while. It's not Sunday soon. It's the time is now. And it was on purpose. It's urgent. It needs our attention. You know, his words were with authority and he was giving a command and a that I thought about that plane in New Orleans for a couple of years. The whole LSU thing is just as heavy in New Orleans as the Saints are. And Coach Ojha on is a great man. And he has this little tradition, this little thing they do that all their players do when they're standing in the tunnel about to run out on the field. Everybody's got all four buckles of their chinstrap buckle except for one. So they effectively got three buckles buckle and he touches them and he gives a command. He says something like buckle up or strap up or whatever. And as a unit, they all at one time click that last buckle on their chest strap. And I look at Jesus saying the time has come as he's like saying I buckle up. Here we go. I've got to do something. It's gonna be different than maybe you ever thought it was going to be. This is the moment you've been waiting for. The lights are on. Here we go. And the very next two words that he says is not go practice harder, not follow more rules, not make yourself more clean. Hazes humbly yourself and repent, because all the things that you feel like you could do good are nothing compared to what I'm about to do. And that really resonated with me. Francis goes on to elaborate on the call to follow me. And it's not just some obscure feeling that sometimes we relegated to in our heart and not the best meaningless. But it's a powerful command when he says, follow me. James and John, the sons of Zebedee, literally left their nest. So they left their boat and left their nest and they practically began to follow him. And so I think that in this time of corona virus and lockdown and uncertainty about men, it's simply just time to have limited distraction, purposeful action and go follow Jesus. Maybe that's at home. Maybe that's, you know, serving some kids down the street. Whatever that looks like, it's time to buckle up because the time is now. It's come and it's time to follow and then really pursue that.
Justin Forman: Josh, I don't know if you want to grab the mike off the floor and have the last word here, but that was great, Luke.
Josh McCown: I'll just keep it short then. Months. John 11:35, Jesus wept. And I say just in the context of empathy and you know, when it came in the garden and Mark in there lamenting over losing steam, then the whole context of it is just to remind. That we can have knowledge and all these things. But if you can have empathy and connect with people on a human level, then what good is all that? And I think in a day and age of right now, a global pandemic and some of the social injustices that we're seeing, some of the racial disparity in our country. Empathy as believers would be a huge characteristic to hold onto. And I think, you know, Jesus wept, sums it all up. And it's not that, you know, in that moment, he was still fully God and he still understood that he was going to heal and he could bring latera from the dead and all those things.
But it was the fact that instead of doing all that and exemplifying his power, he stepped into their story and was empathetic and he wept, you know, and he was with them. And so for me lately, that's just been the thing. It's just, you know, trying to understand people's story. And in large part right now, and social distancing is not getting to be with people, but whether it's through text or over the phone or through face time or all these Zoome meetings, be able to connect with people and let them know that you're with them and that you're bearing the burdens with them and more than anything, just trying to be there with them in this time. So that's kind of what I'm honest. John 11:35, Jesus, wept this kind of meditation on that and try to be empathetic. So first and foremost of people in my house, my family, and then community.