The Original College Gameday
Craig James Tackles The Pony Express, Life as a College Football Analyst, and What Made Him Go to Seminary
You’ve probably heard of the Pony Express. Or maybe you’re more familiar with the Pony Excess. Either way, there’s no doubt that the SMU football team of the 1980s was unforgettable.
Today, we’re talking to one of their stars—Craig James. He talked to us about life during SMU’s hayday, the subsequent fallout over the bribery charges, life as a College Football analyst, why he chose to go to seminary, and what the future might look like.
We covered a lot, so sit down, turn it up, and let’s hit the ground running...
Episode Transcript
*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDA movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.
Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Athlete podcast. We have Craig James in the house, at least virtually in the house. Craig, thank you very much for being on the show today.
Craig James: Well, thank you guys for having me. Being an athlete, now at my age of fifty nine I have to remind myself that the reason I'm taking Advil so often is because I was an athlete.
Henry Kaestner: The price you have to pay, price you have to pay. But thank you for sharing your story with us today. And I get it. We've got a video podcast up, but you look anything but an old guy. So you're doing something, your workout regimen that's doing really, really, really well. So a lot of our listeners know who you are. Spent time in broadcasting. Obviously, a lot of time on the gridiron. But we want to start the show by hearing your life story. What was your life like growing up? And what are the experiences that shaped who you are today?
Craig James: Well, I'm from a little east Texas town, and it was the tomato capital of the world at one point in time. And life was really good. My parents my grandparents believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. We were at church on Wednesdays and Sundays and I knew of Jesus. Life changed dramatically for me when my parents divorced at the age of about seven for me, and we moved to Houston with my mother, my brother and I. And it changed. That was in the survival mode at that point in time. At about 11 years of age, a buddy of mine that I played baseball with asked me if I wanted to go to this Billy Graham revival. I said, yeah, I'll do that. So we go to the stadium that's packed and listened to Billy Graham. And I had no idea who I was sitting there listening to. Right. And at the invitation at the end, I knowingly walked down that stadium, those bleachers, and I accepted Christ is my lord and savior. So I was about 11 years old at that point, you know. I've been on this journey. Now I understand what sanctification is. You know, it's a process. It's just there's no immediate light bulb that goes on. It takes time. And as a freshman at SMU, April 29, 1980, I after an SCA meeting, I re up. I just said, our Lord and please help me. I'm really I'm aware now my need for you. And so it's been a journey through my life as a Christian. And I'm very my high school sweetheart. We dated for seven years and finally got married and we'd been married. Thirty seven. We have four kids and I have six grandkids. I'm Pop C and glad to be a Pop C.
Henry Kaestner: That's awesome. As we said, leading into this, you are a very rich man.
Craig James: I am wealthy beyond wealth management right now.
Henry Kaestner: Awesome. So tell us about the start your high school career. You're in high school and in Texas, big time football. You get on the radar of the guys at SMU. Tell us about what is like we've seen Friday Night Lights. We know the rest of the country has an idea about what high school football is like in Texas. Tell us about the beginning of your career.
Craig James: Okay, so it's you know, this is where the challenge is trying to take us back into the context of the 70s, me growing up in Houston, Texas, the oil boom money. I mean, it was Cadillacs, big boots, big hats, everything. And high school football was maybe at its pinnacle back then. It was really popular. It was the Friday Night Lights that you're talking about. And so I happened to play on a team that went 15. You know, we won the state championship in the highest classification. It was the best team I ever played on, even including my Super Bowl team. I mean, we were really good in that particular season, allowed me to break the state, rushing record, single season, rushing record. And next thing you know, I'm being recruited by everybody in the country. Well, I wanted to follow this little blond that I had met when I was 15 years old to SMU. So SMU had a real leg up on the other recruiters out there because my wife, girlfriend then was already at SMU. A, you're ahead of me. So I committed SMU just as soon as they said, hey, we've got a scholarship for you.
Henry Kaestner: So talk to us about SMU. A lot of us, because ESPN 30 for 30 are familiar with the Pony Express. And I understand that that's one of the most popular episodes that he has bands ever done on 30 for 30. Incredible story. What was life like on the campus of SMU during that heyday?
Craig James: It's Dallas and it was at the time and Dallas was youthful. It is youthful still to this day, and it was just a dynamic place to be. Ron Meyer, the head coach out, recruited the other guys and outhustle everybody. And everybody knows about the era of pay for play. Every college campus from coast to coast was recruiting. Eric Dickerson in May. So I know and Eric knew what was going on. It wasn't that SMU was the only school out there doing it doesn't mean that it was OK. But Ron Meyer brought a bunch of guys together and said, if you guys come in and play together, we will win and we'll have a chance to win a national championship. We believed him and his enthusiasm. And as soon as we got on campus, it just clicked. It was lightning in a bottle, too, where you had the Dallas Cowboys, you had Dallas, you had oil, you had gas, you had everything. And it was just a booming time.
Henry Kaestner: What's it like walking on the field knowing that you could beat any team in the country? And how did that sense of confidence prevail now in football team, but really campus in this city? And this is J.R. Ewing. Right. This is that whole thing. But what was it like you walk onto a football field playing against anybody, knowing you could beat them?
Craig James: J.R. Ewing would've had a hard time getting in our locker room that we thought we were. So here we are, freshmen, young kids. And we thought we were good and we'd been recruited very well. Our sophomore year, we went to Austin to play the University of Texas. They were number two in the country, a great team, historical team. SMU hadn't beaten Texas in like 18 years. And man, we came out and we spanked their backside. And that was when we knew that we really were is worthy of the stars on our helmets as we thought we were. Right. And from that point on, when we walked on the field, we knew we were gonna beat you. And unless we beat ourselves, we were going gonna beat you. And so it really became a contagious thing. A lot of these high school kids in the state of Texas wanted to play in Dallas for SMU. And it just it was a snowball.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah. So some of our listeners probably don't know that SMU stands for Southern Methodist University. And so obviously, faith became real to you before you got on campus. You mentioned before the 1980 rededicated to Life to Christ. What did it feel like to live out your faith on campus during that time? When is 18, 19, 20 year olds your heralded as being demigods and that type of an environment, that type of culture? How do you wrestle with your faith?
Craig James: Man, that's a great question. And I wish that more people knew the character of our team. You're branded as a death penalty team, which we had nothing to do with, but we were lumped in with the way that things came down. Eric Dickerson loves Jesus Christ, Eric, and I are very good friends to this day.
I had we had so many teammates that love the Lord, and that was never reported. It's never talked about today. We had extremely high values in our locker room. We had fun, but our team monitored and gauged itself. We had a really strong Fellowship of Christian Athletes program there. And so our faith in our locker room was something that that no one rammed down your throat. We all just there was an understanding that there were a lot of guys in that locker room who love Jesus Christ.
Henry Kaestner: So take us into life after the death penalty, SMU. I don't think that anything like that has been hand. It was hand out before or since. You feel that the punishment was deserved?
Craig James: Probably. Probably. But but if you're gonna do it to us, then there were a whole host of schools who should have received the death penalty with little SMU was beaten the big schools. That wasn't something that they wanted. And it hasn't happened since because we've seen how long it's taken SMU to recover from that. We still suffer from it because we're not in the big twelve and we're in a very good conference. The American conference. But but if we were in the big twelve today, we would be recruiting in the top three class every year because of Dallas, Texas.
Justin Forman: Craig, man, that's fascinating to think about. You know, a lot of people talk about the death penalty. Will it ever happen again? Do you think that college football programs have gotten to the point where they're too big to fail? You know, have they come to mean so much to a university that it would not only punish the athletic program, but the school as a whole?
Craig James: Well, the school suffers. The students suffers because they attend the university. Many do, wanting the full experience. And here in Texas, if you're to school around here and many places in the country being able to go to a football game on a Saturday as part of being a student, I don't think that we'll ever see the death penalty handed down again. There have been many instances that have been of recent and the last 20 years that have been egregious, crazier than handing out a twenty dollar bill and a death penalty was not given to those schools. So I just don't think that we'll ever see the death penalty occur again. It is economics. It's big business, huge business. And because of that, I think that we will never see the death penalty again.
Justin Forman: So speaking of big business, college game days is one of the most popular sports programs on TV. It's hard for us to remember a time without ESPN News. The SCC network, Big Ten. You know, I've heard guys like Mike Tricot and others say that you were one of the pioneers of regional voices that brought a unique perspective, confidence, swagger, some personality to college football as a broadcaster. Talk about how commentating games and college football has changed over the years.
Craig James: So when I started at ESPN in nineteen ninety one, I mean, ESPN was really just getting its legs. And it was where on Thursday nights you went there. Everybody watch Thursday night college football. There weren't five outlets and doing college game day. Lee Corso, Chris Fowler and I, we knew that for that period of time, those five years we were researching Monday through Friday to share with you the viewer listener, what was happening at Happy Valley or at USC or at Florida State or University of Texas or Texas A&M. So we were conveying and releasing the news. We didn't have all this technology that you have today. I remember when ESPN came to me, I don't know when it was it'll be on somewhere in the ninety two or three or four range. And they had this thing called the Internet and chat room that they wanted me to host. And they gave me a little symbol that made sure I knew that really was me. And we would get like one hundred or two people in this room and they were like, Man, that is unbelievable. That's huge, right? I was in a period of time where it was unique and you had a responsibility, you had a privilege to hold that microphone. And for me to ask Bobby Bout and coach bout, what do you think about the national championship? What do you think about another missed field goal? It was a privilege back then, certainly a privilege.
Justin Forman: One of the privileges that I can imagine is just the kind of games, the spectacle of games that you've been to take us through a couple of top ones. What are some top calls you look back on.
Craig James: One that stands out in my mind would be the very first game that I did in the swamp. And it was the A Team. And ESPN said, hey, Craig, would you mind being a sideline reporter for us on the Saturday night game? Tennessee at Florida? And I was branded business. I said, sure, I'll do that. It was raucous, man. It was loud. It was so loud that no one can understand. I could even think myself and I was pumped about it. And that was my first introduction to the swamp. And I finally, after many years, realized, never pick against Florida and the swamp. They're going to win 90 plus percent of time. They're going to wind down there because their crowd, their fans are awesome. I think back to the 06 Rosebowl and USC and Texas number one versus number two and being on that field watching and being a part of the announced team. Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Matt liner a phenomenal, phenomenal display of athleticism. I think back to the Iron Bowls. Any game between Auburn and Alabama. It was true hatred, passion. I mean, they did not like each other and it was just intense. So announcing a Florida, Georgia game. Same kind of deal. There's a real passion to want to win by the fans. And that's what makes college football so special.
Justin Forman: Certainly, it certainly is special. You know, many know you as a broadcaster, but fewer might be familiar with the entrepreneurial ventures in broadcasting today. We've got former players like Tony Romo paid it. What is it? A reported seventeen million per season. It's big business. But back in the day, you had a school for broadcasting and friends from ESPN and the networks came in and taught some classes. Tell us about that venture.
Craig James: My first venture, the entrepreneurial ship, was I was a junior at SMU and I wanted to have a car leasing and sales business. So I went and found a bank that would give me a twenty thousand dollar line of credit was not an SMU guy. I went and found this. We pitched the guy what I was trying to accomplish. I have a billboard that was five feet tall with five parking lot spots so that I could get my car dealers license. So I was brokering Massah, Sevan's and Honda Kortz on Marcom, up two or three bucks piece in college, you know, making 600 bucks on a couple of cars a month. That's a big deal. And so is Mustang car sales and leasing. The athletic director called me and after several months of realizing what I was doing, he said, hey, what are you doing using my logo? I said, What? You mean, your logo is a Mustang? It's free. I can use that plus out there. That was my first venture into economics understanding, would it? Interest rates due to the bottom line. You know how you have to move things higher to be responsible. And ever since then, I've always had different businesses going in my life and I've now gotten to a point in my time through like situations with the broadcasting school where we train 15, 20, 25 coaches and players a year. We created a company that ultimately Mark Cuban came to me when he had his broad band and he said, hey, I want to partner on this thing. And I miss the partnership because my partner was Ross Perot Jr. and we had this really vibrant business and I had video content that was being provided for the Internet. The original video content provider for Yahoo! The Sporting News and Mark said, I need content, Craig, you need distribution. I wanted 50 percent of Mark's company and he wanted to give us 10 percent. So it did not happen. Some guy blew the deal from Ross Perot's side. And about two years later, Cuban sold his company for 5.5 billion. And he sent me an e-mail. He said, C.J., you know how much? 10 percent of five point. Oh, my goodness. That's not fair. That's not fair. So that's called life's lessons. And oh, yes, I've been hey, I've been an entrepreneur all my life. Most people know me just as a broadcaster or a football player. But I've enjoyed the challenges of going out and working in the real street.
Henry Kaestner: So recently, Craig you've became a little bit of a Renaissance man. You just graduate from Dallas Theological Seminary. What inspired you to go back to school?
Craig James: Well, so in 2011, that was my last broadcast season, 2012. I resigned from broadcast so that I can run for the U.S. Senate seat in Texas and I felt the Lord calling me to do that. Still to this day, believe that now I'm more understanding of why he did that. It wasn't for me to win. It was for me to transition to where I am in life today. And so at about that point time, you know, I wasn't retired because I still was doing my real estate business, but I wasn't passionate about anything and I couldn't get away from Matthew, where it says Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these other things take care of themselves. So some things lined up. Next thing you know, I'm applying for graduate school, Dallas Seminary, and get accepted. Had no idea what I was doing. And it was four years of intense studying and learning. And really, for me, helping me to better understand really a simplified message, I have a purpose in life, and that is to go into share. And it makes life a lot easier for me.
Henry Kaestner: I think a lot of us, you know, not only are there athletes at listeners podcasts, of course, but we've got a lot of crossover because we've got the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast and the Faith Driven Investor podcast. And I think that they're good number of people that are out there in the marketplace that wish they could go back to seminary. The reality is that most of them, including myself, could we could take it virtually or we could do what you've done. What's something that God taught you about him that you hadn't known? What was a surprise from four years in seminary?
Craig James: I love the song. I'm just a nobody trying to tell everybody all about somebody who saved my soul. And I think what God really let me know is that I thought I was a somebody and saying, hey, you know somebody, I'm into somebody. I'm bringing you down to a nobody. So you go tell everybody about somebody who makes a difference in your life.
And, you know, there are a lot of big words that you learn in seminary at the end of the day, what have you done about Jesus? You're either with me or against me. That's what Jesus says. What has someone personally done about she's not your friend or your mother, your brother, your sister, cousin. What have you done about Jesus? And I think that is the most pressing question that every person must have to deal with.
Justin Forman: So talk a little bit more about that when you look at that journey. I love how you say that you understand why God took you through that season to better understand where we are today when somebody points to the identity of athletic career, even what we've done today diving into some of these fun experiences and stories. How has it changed how you look back on those, how you tell those, how you see those opportunities kind of in retrospect?
Craig James: Well, again, I'm fifty nine years old. So now that I'm getting some experience and wisdom about my life and I look back on the beach and I see the footprints and now I can better see how I didn't understand this step or that step. And why did that happen? But now I can see the connecting of the dots on the beach. And when your 30s and your 40s, at least for me, it was all the rat race. And I wasn't thinking about King Solomon and Ecclesiastes. And I was thinking about making more money, getting the next step, being announcer on this squad, doing this or this real estate deal.
When King Solomon, the wealthiest, wisest person of all time in the history of the world, comes out, Ecclesiastes sees and he starts out by saying meaningless, meaningless, utterly meaningless. It's all worthless. Everything that you're trying to chase and do just doesn't matter. So now when I share with somebody out there. Yes. Where to go and work hard to do our things, but have a perspective and the internal perspective that I have now allows me to get through any kind of challenge. And it's being wired as a human being. I want to jump back into how can I resolve this thing? I've got to figure this out. Well, I don't figured out go really pray about it and see if God can help you with it.
Justin Forman: So take us into a day in the life of Craig today. What does it look like? You mentioned that I think that you're doing some land development with your son.
Craig James: Yes. So I basically was an entitlement real estate guy developer. We back in the 2000s bought big ranches, ran them, would carve them into seven hundred eight hundred thousand fifteen hundred acre ranches. Bought at twenty seven thousand acre place one time and was gonna turn it into a wind farm. It's too many political maneuvers to get through on that site. Sold it as a dairy farm. And then just kind of moved into where we live in arguably the hottest county, one up in America. Collin County. And it's just a ton of growth that's coming right in the middle of where we are. And so my son Adam was one of my two boys. He was out Midland in the oil business. I talked him into coming back and joining me.
And so we go find opportunities and we have two or three single family developments and we have commercial projects that we do. And the red flags that I used to try to figure out how to get around in business. They're thrown up as a red flag for a reason. And every time I've justified those, tried to justify those, they bit me in the backside. And so now I'm trying to be a wiser developer and investor in what I do.
Justin Forman: So we talk a lot about an Faith Driven Entrepreneur and future investor, this idea of willfulness versus faithfulness. How do we be faithful to the opportunities that God brings to us versus willful? And I think that kind of pushes into some of the things that you're mentioning is not trying to bust down a door that God might not be intending to open. When you look at where God has you in this season, where are you seeing God show up in the work that you're doing?
Craig James: Well, this morning is an example. You know, I wake up, have Bible study that I do on Friday morning with my group and then this project that we have, this development, here comes this truck that shows up with a sig sign on his yellow pickup that says Jesus Christ will save your life. Well, I want to highlight that. I go out. I say hello to that man. Hey, way to go, man. Thumbs up. I'm a business owner. And I mean, I applaud you for your confidence in Jesus Christ. I posted on Instagram, I have a chance. Whenever I see certain subcontractors come around that I go and I can visit with them. I can lift them up. I can share the gospel. There are countless day to day opportunities for me to share, whether it's a banker, an architect, an engineer, a lawyer, a guy that's working put in pipeline. And one of our projects, I'm able to go.
I use the business as my ministry and I happen to bring in enough money that supports our ministry. And there's a genuine nurse there. And I think the Lord knows my son Adam's heart, my heart, and he knows that we wholeheartedly are trying to do his will on a daily basis. I think that the association of people, you know, if you hang around fire, you're going to get burned. And I think I heard that many times through my life and I've finally taken it to heart. It's not that I don't do business. You know, Jesus went to the well. He didn't just hang out with all the good guys. He went around those who needed to hear the truth. And I am not afraid of the truth. And I'm trying to get better now at sharing compassionately with someone without having them feel like I'm judging them. That's not my job.
You know, God took us off the hook there, said you guys are qualified to judge. Don't do it right. So I think now someone seeing my actions and how I walk around and how I act is far more powerful than what I say to them. And number two, the other thing that I've gotten better about. I'm huge on this thing. You know, Jesus said I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but through him. Right. And people just get mad at me. That's fighting words. Many people will get OK with you and start talking about God or Jesus. But when you tell someone that there's one bus to heaven that's fighting words, that's a line in the sand. So I've gotten better about saying I did not say that. Jesus said I'm the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the fun of it through me. And so I feel like in my day to day walk, I am an absolute fool. And I could get off of this conversation here now and have some random, crazy thought in my mind. That's how incapable I am. But I've gotten better now about the Lord and the Holy Spirit than dwells me moving me to try to be a righteous guy. I'm never going to be perfect. We all sinned and fall short of the glory of the Lord. But I'm trying. And I think that's where I've matured into the season where I am.
Henry Kaestner: That's really good. That's extremely helpful. We like to end every one of the podcast that we have, just hearing a little bit more from what you're learning, maybe even today, if it put you on the spot, maybe today, maybe yesterday in reading God's word, you've shared a lot of great biblical truth with us, including just with that. Answer right there. Anything else? Or maybe even because you have just shared, although you could absolutely build on it. Maybe something that has been a good discipline for you in engaging with God's word. Do you do it with other guys? Just talk to us a little bit about how you engage in the Bible.
Craig James: Great. Great question, Henry. I have said for years that I tried to wake up each day and begin with prayer and some study in honesty. You know, I would get up and I would catch a devotional on my cell phone and on.
And that's better than nothing. Absolutely. But what I found where I get a peaceful day is when I really get up and I'll spend time reading his work and studying his work. And I'm not talking about reading two or three pages. I'm talking about reading two or three lines or census and asking who, what, where, why, how, when. What's he talking about? What's the Lord trying to say in the Senate? And so. When I study wholeheartedly, I find more peace in my day. That's a fact. And I'm able to now when I put my hand on my pillow at night, I try to think of times during the day how I acted or reacted to a certain situation. And it makes a difference.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, that really resonates. You know, we've got a good group of our audience that are investors because the faith driven investor part. And investors invest in pattern recognition. And ultimately, I think that we went into a guy to Nome forever or no guy didn't join forever. And when you see doing different things and then that seems to line up your day, better to have more joy. And like, I should produce more of that. But it's amazing how some of the things that would seem so obvious take us to where, like you and I are in our 50s, to the fact that it really just sets in. My hope is that listeners podcasts, we have lots of people were younger than we are that are able to just like, you know what, gosh. I want to take a short time. If Craig James has figured at age 59 with the secret for intimacy is for God, maybe I just kind of trust in that and lean into it a little bit more with one more discipline because of this conversation I just heard.
Craig James: Man And it's your heart. The four most often mentioned words and your names in the Bible in this order. Lord, God, Jesus and Father Lords, 80 something a hundred times depending on the translation gods in there at 4000 and the Jesus and fathers that about 15 hundred times the next most mentioned name and or word heart. Eight hundred times. And so God wants our heart involved with him. I think that's intentional. He mentions the heart all the time in the Bible. So I want to wholeheartedly seek him. If I'm not, I put the word now I stop reading if I'm distracted and flustered, not with the word. I'm not going to waste my time because that's wasting God's time. And so with a true wholehearted heart, try to open the word, try to pray and seek him and you'll find him. It's not a game of hide and seek. God says draw near to me and I'll draw near to you, you know, which knock. And I'm here. I'm there for you. It's not hide and seek.
Henry Kaestner: I get one last question for you. We never do this. We never have a question after the final question about what's God's telling you in his word. But as I think back to this podcast, I think about Texas and West Texas oil and money and then Dallas and Houston. And there's so much money that's involved in professional sports in in Texas and in land development investment over your fifty nine years and then really spending time, of course, and last for it. Yes. What is God taught you about money.
Craig James: It's fleeting. It just doesn't matter. I had a neighbor back in the 90s. We had a lake house and he had a sign and his boathouses said he who dies with the most winds and some hot toys. And I say, well, you know, in a kind of like, bother me then. But now, as I think about it, the people who pursue money and things are always trying to find stuff to fill the void. Yeah. And we've been blessed to have made a lot of money in our lives. And I think you would agree.
It's nice to have. But it's not fulfilling. It's like the word joy. I've never come across a person who uses the word joy in their vernacular, who isn't a Christian. How can you have joy if you don't have the Lord? And and while the times in my life and I have had my priorities out of whack at times and honestly, you know, I've had work number one family number to God, number three. But in those times, I was always find in the next day a better car, bigger car, more expensive car, bigger house, bigger boat house, bigger boat. And you're always chasing that something and it just is not filling.
And the one thing that does fill and never changes is God Almighty and Jesus Christ. And I was blessed to have gone to Israel a year ago. The holy lands are unbelievable and undeniable. The Lord walked the earth and he will come back.
Henry Kaestner: Is there one ministry that you like that you give to you and your wife? Give to that? You think it's really doing great work out there in the world that you think Ardian to know about?
I'm a big fan of our pastor, Jack Graham. Then, Tony Evans, John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, David Jeremiah. Men, like that who have big, wide ranging outreach out through their TV and their radio, the pulpit man, they're making a difference and we support them so that they can go go do their thing.
Henry Kaestner: Well, that makes sense. It is their predecessor, Billy Graham, that led you to Lord at age 11. So that makes all the sense in world. Well, Craig, I'm really grateful for your time with us. Thank you for your faithfulness. Thank you for sharing with us today. And I'm just grateful for you.
Craig James: I'm glad our paths crossed. Appreciate you guys having me and blessings to us all.