There's Still Work to Do
Nevil Shed Talks Texas Western Basketball and What It Looks Like to Open the Door to Better Race Relations in America
Today's guest is a special and timely one. Nevil Shed was one of the players on the 1966 Texas Western Men's Basketball team who won the National Championship and ushered in a new era of desegregated college basketball.
Their story is famous now—you can watch the movie, Glory Road to see the season play out—but Nevil gave us a behind the scenes look into what life was really like in the 1960s for an African American college student living in New York and going to school in El Paso, Texas.
We originally planned to release this episode later this Summer, but in light of recent events in America, Nevil's words are startlingly relevant. We hope this episode serves as a chance for us all to look back at where we came from as we look forward to a different, more open and accepting, future. As always, thanks for listening.
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Athlete. We very much enjoy bringing you stories of some of the greatest sports stars in our midst that are driven by their faith in a way that might encourage and equip you as you're an athlete or as your business owner or as you are a teacher or a pastor or wherever God has you. One of the things that's important for us is for us to also be able to have the program provide some perspective of what God is doing in the world and he has been doing in the world. Of course, the concept of an athlete like a Tim Tebow or Kirk Cousins being driven by their faith and being able to talk about that publicly is something that's important. We want to cover that on the show. And we have and we will. But we also want to be able to provide our listeners with a broader context and an experience that allows for us all to understand the larger fabric of athletics and God working in the marketplace. And there's no real better place for us to really dive into that than today's program that we have with Nevil Shed. Nevil. We're so honored that you, who we really consider to be a living legend, are on this show. Many of our listeners have watched Glory Road, just a great, fantastic movie and seen the power of the story. It's super powerful. And we want to dove into that in, hear more about your faith journey. But first off, before we talk about UTEP, before we talk about the story that became Glory Road and the things that happened after. Tell us about growing up. Tell us about your personal story and the beginning of your faith journey.
Nevil Shed: Well, you know, growing up in the South Bronx, in New York City, I was fortunate to live in the Bronx, New York, where there were people of colors. And in New York, you know, living. inan environment where you were able to go to the movies, ride the bus, in other words, you say that you were able to, to a certain extent, exercise the land of the free. So, you know, the only way of networking on what was going on in the South and other parts, the only thing we heard was from two magazines, which was a Jet magazine and Ebony, that really put forth a strong image as to how it was back then. But once again, saying I came from a Christian family. My mother, she was in the choir called the William Gospel Singers. And I had my grandmother that lived with us who was the powerhouse behind the Christian resing. That was Sally Jones, a.k.a. Big Momma. You know, she was a lady, a strong lady that I remember just seeing in these black long dresses with embroidered collar. And she had a cane. And to watch her walk across the floor, it seemed like she was floating. And to this day, even though she's not with us anymore, I swear to God that that cane that she had was a piece of Moses's staff because whenever you see it pointed at us or banging that on the floor asking for me, Neville, or she called me Butch, which was my nickname. You know once that cane hit the floor, everybody was listening. And she always had a Bible in her hand. And she was the one that continued to read the passage. She Was always reading. And I remember times. She used to sit me at the foot of the chair and she just read to me, read to me. And of course, as a youngster, I'd fall asleep and she'd pop me with that little cane, you know. But it was there all the time. And as a youngster, I was quite sheltered. My mother kept me in the house a lot. You know, my view was always from the fourth floor window looking out all the kids playing. But it was all right because they kept me quite occupied. On Sunday's, it was Sunday school and church then coming home to eat that good after church meal and then evening church. And that's when my mother and her choir would sing. And there were times when I would travel with them and I'd have to, you know, carry music and listen to them sing. She had a beautiful, beautiful voice. My father, he was a worker behind us, a very strong Christian man. But, you know, I never really saw him pray or anything. But, you know, he'd always say, everything's gonna be all right. Just keep praying. And I'd hear my grandmother in the backseat moaning, praying, you know. So it was kind of, you know, a comfort to hear. And seeing the things outside, you know, even though from the comfort of my home, you know, the drug was out there. The gangs was out there. And, yes, there was racism. And my grandmother used to always say, baby, when you grow up, you're going to be special. And I said, big momma. How can you say that when I'm seeing all that stuff out there? And I say this today. She said, baby, take all that negative energy and work through prayer of turning into positive action, negative energy, energy into positive actions. And I was a dreamer. I think to this day, at 77 years young, I am truly a dreamer. And I say to them, you know, Mom, Dad, big momma, when I grow up, I want to be successful so I can take care of you for all the things. I saw the problems and sometimes struggles that my mother and father went through. Praise God, you know, the food was always there and I saw the bills being paid. But I knew there were times when I'd hear them talk about this has to be paid. That has to be paid. And my grandmother being in the back said, don't worry, baby, it's going to be all right. So when I came to them to talk about that, I said, you know, when I grow up, I am going to be successful. I want to be successful. And I dream about this big momma. And she said, baby, keep on dreaming for that. Without dreams, for passion, for something, one cannot receive his or her vision. And believe you me, wanting to become a basketball player. And being from the fourth floor window, but always listening to the basketball games I'd actually envision myself playing this year. As time went on, going to school, I'm doing this long division because it is part of my journey. You know, going to school. I was a little fat kid, you know, lack of exercise, a spoon. And there were kids at the elementary school that used to bully me. And, you know, I think I acquired my speed and agility because once school was out at three fifteen. When I got to that fence, I was gone. And I would run home. And when I got close to home, my mother said, Don't you ever let me see you running away from somebody but I was fast enough to be ahead of the guys who were chasing me. And, you know, I was quite punctual at getting home because I had to run past the shoe shop, a stationary store, and a cleaners, and they'd say. Yup, it's 315 right on time there go that Shed boy. He blowing past those houses right on time every day. You know, as the years went by when they were still there, they always say, son we use to see you running by!
Henry Kaestner: So you end up from South Bronx. You're down in West Texas. It's a time of civil rights. Your in a place that's completely different. I can't imagine.
Nevil Shed: Let me stop you. Let me stop you right there. Now, you know I will through the grace of God. I became a pretty good basketball player, acquired a lot of scholarships. I was all city ball player, New York City, which was to be all city in New York. That's pretty good. A lot of my scholarships were to schools that I had no chance to go to Alabama. You know, ACC schools, you know, but I know I couldn't attend, but I did get a scholarship to a school in the south, North Carolina AT&T, which is one of our historically black colleges. I was pretty happy about that because it was giving me a chance to continue. You know, playing basketball in the south.
And let me say, I know about how it was in the South. My father was a Pullman porter who worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad, which now I think is Amtrak. And I was able to get a free ride to Greensboro. Now, here was my first part of culture shock. It was a couple of guys and myself that were heading to Greensboro. We were able to sit anyplace on the train and we know we set, you know, in just regular coach. When we got to Baltimore, I think Baltimore, the conductor came and said, all of colored folks, the Negroes have to go to the smoking area. And I said, I aint going to no smoking area. You know, my daddy put me right here and he politely said to me, young boy, if you don't go to the back, we we'll put you off the train. So those guys that come on Shed, man, we went and sat in the back. And I didn't like that because I wasn't accustomed to it. But that was the first episode. Once I got to Greensboro, oh, yes. They met me at a train station. And all of a sudden I looked around, I saw a white water fountain and a color water fountain, I saw a white restroom and a colored restroom and found out as time that the restaurants that were there, those chefs were African-American, the waiters were African-American. But for me to get a meal, I had to go round to the back. And I said, hey, man, why do we. goto the back? They would say, Shed, this is where we got to do, man, we can't sit in the front. And this is still that first part of something very, very strange to me.
I went to the movies. I took my dollar down, put it in the front there, and the lady kept pointing to the back. So what do you mean to the back? And this young boy came by to say, Man, we got to go round the back. I said, okay. I picked my dollar back up and went around into the alley and there was a putrid green and blue sign that said colored people's interests. So I walked there and I had to walk up these stairs in the balcony. There were benches, all right, to watch the same movie. And we sat in the benches. To get, you know, popcorn you had to knock on the door, but I said nah, I don't think I want to have that popcorn there. And I couldn't believe that. But, you know, my mother taught me something about choices. She's a baby, you know, before you open your mouth about choices. You know, you got to listen and watch. Keep the mouth shut. So I had one thing that she taught me when we was to ride the subway a lot and she'd see people go on to different little antics. You see, baby, she said, be quiet and watch. Be quiet and watch then ask the questions, so going through that episode, and I saw where so I couldn't look a person in the face. My mother and father told me. Whoever you talk to, you have to listen to. You stand tall, I was tall and skinny. You stand tall, you know, look them right in the eye. You know what? I found out later on that you couldn't do that. And I saw how African Americans would walk past white people, how they would stop turn their back. They'd walk past. Then they start waling again. It What it was like, hey, being cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, you know, there was nothing to it. But I said, man. I can't live like this.
But then again, I remember how a lot of African Americans lost their lives and other things that were hurt them because of them trying to stand up for their rights. And me, you know, being in a situation that was totally strange to me and knowing one that I don't think I could have dealt with that. I called my mother and said, Mom, I got to come home.
And she said, why? And I began to tell these situations and she said, Try, baby, you got a scholarship. So I stayed a lot on campus. You know, I did well as a freshman. You know, I started. I did pretty well for that. What broke the camel's back was one time I was downtown. Picture this. You know, the water fountains that had like a refrigerator water with a little pipe going to another little fountain. And it said colored people's fountainright there. There was a little old lady that was walking on the sidewalk and she'd get right next to the colored water fountain and she had a can of a ajax and she stayed at that particular water fountain. All right. There's a white kids came by there and she stood and turned her back. They woul spit in the doggone fountain then thought was funny. She never said nothing. They walked past and she began to wipe it off.
I said, Oh, hell, no. What I wanted to do was go back there and, you know, kick some booty, you know. But that thing about the negative energy. Turning into positive action and knowing that if I would have done that, my life would have been in danger. So I left the school and I went back to New York City and my mom said, baby, at home you either work or you go to school. So I started working at this little fast food place. I kept working at my trade. And here's the most magnificent thing that happened. There was one of my friends that lived in the Bronx, New York, played for Coach Haskins at Texas Western. Told him about these basketball players in New York City. At the time, it was Willie Cager and I. And he told about this guy who coached us on the outside Hilton White. And did I ever go to the school? Nope. How I got that scholarship was that a banker from El Paso had business in New York City, found out where we lived and visited us and said, I'm from Texas Western College. You know, I'm a banker, but I'm representing Coach Haskins, the coach there, and we're willing to give Nevil four years room board tuition, all fees paid. And I said, well, where's that? He said, El Paso, Texas. I said, Texas? I said, the only thing I know about Texas was oil wells and cows. Do you hear me? So I accepted the scholarship. But let me tell you something. When we got there, I was very cautious as to where I was going. But going to tell Paso, Texas, when we flew over these mountains and I saw nothing but desert. I thought I was going straight to hell and I'm told Cager, are we sure that we're in the right place here? And the plane to land on the field, you know? And when they opened that door, it had to bewell over 100 and some odd degrees and the dust was blowing. And I said Cager I don't think I want to do this here. But we walked down and out of the dust came this little pudgy white guy and his assistant, Mo Ivory.
It reminded me of one of those Clint Eastwood movies. That they just sort of walk into there and a new part of my journey began. But I was very cautious now, you know, as to where I was. But the way I was treated, once again, I bought into saying that this is a place where I can continue on my trade and my dream of becoming a successful basketball player.
But getting a taste of that black, white. It was hard, you know, reading about it. And remember now it might have been a different thing today because of our network. You know, everything that happens all around the world, such as what we're going through right now is network. But all we had was, say, the Jet magazine and Ebony magazine, which only gave you so much. But stepping into the real world of that and getting a small taste. So, yes, I was quite cautious. But when I arrived in El Paso, you know, and how people treated me, except certain times, you know, certain times. You know, some people, you know, lived in their own lives for so long. It was somewhat uncomfortable, but I was smart enough to stay away from that.
Justin Forman: So, Neville, take us in a little bit. I appreciate the context that you've given us. You've helped us understand the situation. It's crazy to think in today's day and age that you and Cager make a decision, go across country, you know, on the word of somebody and some ideas, no pictures. You're not seeing the thing. These days, People are visiting a couple of times before they commit. But talk to us now a little bit about the dynamics in the locker room. You get there on campus. What's that transition like for you? What's the tension that's there as you've got a team that has diverse and coming from unique backgrounds?
Nevil Shed: Now, let me tell you some of it. Now, you know the movie Glory Road. All right, the movie. You know, when they started writing the script for Glory Road, they took us one at a time and asked a question similar to what you're saying now. How was it? What was the relationship between the white athletes and the black athletes? To be honest with you, we never had any problems. We never had any problems.
And, you know, they went to the situation and asked the white athletes, what do you think about, you know, not being able to play most of the game when those seven African Americans, you know, were planned predominantly most of the game? They never had anything bad to say. And when they put us together, they couldn't believe it. You know, I think the writers were trying to find some type of, you know, story line between it. Yeah. Never happened. My best friend was named Louis, from New Mexico. We called him Flip. You know, we just hung out together. We never, I repeat, now I'm just speaking for myself. I never on the basketball team, now the basketball players, never had any controversies about that. Math was not my great subject. As a matter of fact, I was a product of mathematical anxiety. I went to one of the white guys. Hey, man, this algebra kicking my behind here. I said hey, man, I need help with math. And he helped me. Understand it was one brother to another. And to this day, we still have that type of relationship. So, you know, when it came to that, when it came to hanging out. When it came to playing for Don Haskins, number one, you would not have allowed that. All right. Number two, not one time can I remember when I had one of the call me a derogatory name. You know, someone asked me a long time ago, if you had described that team in one word, what would it be? I said cohesiveness. You know, I kind of smiled and said, you know, we were exercising diversity and inclusion back then when it was even in the dictionary. We were very comfortable. And we stood together. Yes. In certain places, East Texas. We knew not to go into Buck Jones' Restaurant and other places, you know, because Coach Haskings did a good job of protecting us. It was there. And I guess I could say for myself. I wanted so bad to fulfill the dream of being successful and once again buying into this man's system, which I thought he was out of his mind. You know, you had to be a certain kind of basketball player to play for him, but I wasn't there to mess that up.
Justin Forman: So take us into that. What about the system? I mean, we hear motion offense. We hear some of those things. I want you to kind of move into that special season. The one that we hear about in the movie, the one that we hear about there. What was it in the X's and O's? The chemistry, it sounds like was there. But what was special about playing for Coach Haskins in the style of basketball that was played at the time?
Nevil Shed: OK, first of all, I hated the man. I think we all hated him. All right. And you had to be a special kind of ball player to play for Don Haskins. Now look at the city ball players laid on that team. There was Nevil Shed, Willie cage, Willie Wersley from New York City run and gun. You know, Bobby Joe Hill from Detroit, run and gun. Big Daddy Latin from Houston. You know, all black team run and gun. You know, we were all like that. So we came down now ready to play some run and gun ball. We got on the floor in like the early scrimmage before the start. And by then, I was a rebounder. You know, I could grab that rebound and pass it out and run like a thoroughbred down the floor and we'd run down and see the guard bouncing the ball real slow down. And I would say, hey, man what you doing? And Coach Haskins come out and say hey Shed, you're not one of those Big Apple city slickers are you? We control the ball down here. And I did not say. What do you mean? So I had to ask some of the guys who were there and they say, hey, man, we run a passing game. A passing game consists of maybe three or four things there. Pass, cut to the basket, pass and screen away, pass and screen the person that you pass the ball to. That was it. When you dribble a basketball, you're not allowed to make bounce passes because he believes if you can get a ball to him in a straight pass a bounce pass wasn't necessary. Don't you dare try to dribble behind your back. And I look at this man. You know, for a first year, we were winning because of his defense, you know, his defense was tenacious. Our office was just a standard, I guess you could say, passing game. And we had to pass that ball maybe 15 times unless there's a lay up shop before we'd take it up.
Justin Forman: So was there a point in the season? Was there a point in the tournament where he just realized it's time to put the throttle down and let it go?
Nevil Shed: No, sir. Now, you talk in the movie part, you understand? Let me say, what's with that particular year, 65, 66. We ran all the time. We got the ball off the board and pitched that thing out to Bobby Joe Hill. We were gone, but we had to set ourselves up. We had two great guards, Bobby, Joel and Austin Otters. So he knew how to use his talents. People asked prior to game. Well, you know, what do you think you're going to do? What are the changes that you're going to make playing against Kentucky? You know, had won the national championship four years prior to that. The great Adolph Rupp. Oh, we said, hey, man, we'll play the same way that we've been playing to get to that point. Now, if you talk talking to the coach now, you knew that Mr. Rupp had that one three one offence and defense, you know, trappin in the corners.
I looked at that and laughed because they couldn't trap Bobby. Bobby Joe was so much ahead of himself. And, you know, Willie Worsley was so quick, you know. And Coach Haskins, I repeat, Coach Haskins told David Latin, he said the minute you touch the ball. I don't care ifyou travel. I want you to a slam dunk that ball. And looking at the film, a lot of times we're very patient and they're in the one three one defense. And somehow the ball was passed beautiful to David Latin and unfortunately Pat Riley was underneath the basket and there was thunder and he threw that thing down.
But as far as a unique offense, we didn't have it. Defense, we're strictly man to man. I think one time in my four years there, we played a zone and that would insult us. I remember one time we were scouting the game. And they're saying that, you know, we never had a close practice away. But this man came by and said. Don want us to run everybody up? And he said, no. They're gonna try to hold a zone against us and we'll just go slow the ball down and take the air out of it. And that's what he would do. You know, he hatedsaid zone, but there wasn't too many teams that can trap us. And you know, that game, the starting five regulars season was Bobby Joe Hill, Austin Orders, Carrie Flournoy, David Lattin and I. That game, he sat me down and put Willie Worsley in because they had those three super guards. So, you know, you want to match them on that. People ask me, Shed, did you get upset over that? I said, no, because I knew that I was going to get in the game somewhere through the hear of those two halves. How many points did I score for that game? I scored three points. And I think they said I had about three or four rebounds. But my greatest part of the game was that I shot the free throws that put us ahead and we never looked back. And it did. But do you hear me? It didn't bother me because that's what it was all about. If I would have sulked and got mad because I didn't start, I don't think I would've been playing at all. We knew what our responsibilities were. It was defense. If you looked at the percentage, I mean, they shot the ball. Thirty three percent if Irecall. You know, we took away all that. Pat Riley did score. He got about 19 points. You know, he was the real deal. But when you look at a five man game and how we controlled the game, people said that we were not disciplined. But that was a myth because how we controlled the basketball, you know, and it worked under pressure, even though they said that we were so dumb that we couldn't even write our names. We were misfits that and all that type of stuff. One newspaper said, now we're going to be going up against a great team. You know, they're going to really see how basketball is played. That was a joke. Haskins, if you were able to talk to him now, they ask him what was their demeanor, you know, before the game? And he said, I got so mad at the, that I walked into the room, and they were laying out playing domino. Bobby Joe had his toothpick and laid back on the bed. You know, we weren't worried about that game.
Henry Kaestner: That makes me think as you talk about just the atmosphere before the game makes me wonder, did you all understand in any degree about the importance of game? I mean, one of the watershed moments in all of sports. You changed landscape for college basketball and race relations forever. At the time, did you all realize that you living in a historical moment? Was that any part of the conversation? Did you have any awareness about that?
Nevil Shed: No. Let me step back and put this real simple to you. We were a bunch of kids, number one, just playing basketball. And I'm talking about 12 athletes. All right. Just playing the basketball game playing one game at a time. All right. Did not really think getting to the final four. Even when we were rank pretty high in the ratings, you know, we play one game at a time. Yes. We heard people say, wait till you play this team and wait till you play that team.
But I can't remember when we really panicked over games. And if you look back on the schedule, we had a bunch of games that we were behind, you understand? And I mean, one game we had played and we were like twenty two points down. And we knew that Coach Haskins was gonna go on there and blow our heads off. He said something like, you got 20 minutes to get them. Don't try to do it too fast. And he walked out the room. You know it was like saying I'm gonna whoop your butt when you get home. You know, it never happened.
And Bobby Joe took over. Bobby Joe said, you know, he just went off. Shed, if you can't rebound better, Latin you better do this, that, you know, if not just give the ball to me and Willie. You know that's the type of leader Bobby Joe was, but it was one game at a time. And we had some real vicious overtime games, you know, and Bobby Joe, like we said, hey, babe, it's just another game. Just another game. But honestly, if I had to stand in front of my players now. All the ball players of color. I can't really say that we panicked, but when we got to the final four now. Holy smoke. We played this semifinal games, you know, and when we had to play Kansas, which was a heck of a game, we had the same as Jo Jo White with the conversation of him stepping out of bounds. And I think we knew that they had to Walt Wesley and Jojo White and all those things. Hey, we just played. They had to play against us. We had to worry about them. They had to worry about us. And let me tell you about that semifinal game.
The first game of the final four, Nevil Shed decided to be Cassius Clay. We were playing against Cincinnati to go to the semifinal. There was a guy on the Cincinnati team that just so he was elbowing me and ribbing me, you know, grabbed all my stuff. And I was kind of butting back with him. And Haskins said, Shed, you cut that out. And I said, but coaches. He said, You play the game. I said, All right, OK, we'll play this game. So we'll go in on offense. And I was. But go out to the screen for David Latin. And this guy had a handful of my short. So I turned around, gave him a roundhouse. And, of course, they call the technical. And Haskins, you know, they threw me out the game. Haskins went bezerk your truth, you. Wow. Oh, he had he had beautiful names for me. I'll tell you about that later on.
They threw me out the game. Willie Cage came in and just, you know, did his thing. He shot the ball that one us the game. He said Shed your through. So when the game was over, you know, by the locker room. We just got our clothes and left. He left me in the arena. He left me there. And I called my mom and I said, Mom. Coach left me in the arena today. Never Shed are you out your mind? I said, oh Lord I have no type of support. The sports Information director came in on his way out. Is that Nevil? What are you doing here? I said coach left me. He took me back the next day when we had to play Kansas. I was scared to death at breakfast. I stayed so far away from Coach Haskins, you know, just avoid any kind of things that he would do. Pregame meal I saw my plate, so things look good. And then it was time for the game.
So I got into the station wagon with the trainers and stuff. I wouldn't get the regular station wagon Coach Haskins. I got to the locker and saw my uniform out there. That is looking good. But when it came time for him to put the team out there, who was going to start that. Now they had a little thing that was to be Nevil SHed, you know, versus Walt Wesley, the big guy what have you. I guess that was changed. So it was time to go out on the floor. And I'm always the last guyto run our. And walk past Coach Haskins. He was waiting there, he said Shed. I said, I can't believe it. That is going to throw me off the team right now. And I walked to him and said. Yes, sir. He said, the next time you think your Cassius Clay when you're hit him, make sure he doesn't get up off the floor. And he laughed at me. And went on in the game. He sat me down. It was over. The first half of the game, I didn't start. I didn't start, you know, and we kind of struggled with them and what have you.
Second half, I still didn't go in, and I believe to this day that if Latin wouldn't have gotten foul trouble, he would have sat me down the whole game. But when he called my name to go into the game, I jumped up off the bench and I had my sweat pants and jacket off before I touched the ground. I went and scored 12 points and 12 rebounds. You know, that's the type of adventures we had. Were we worried about the game when it went to a double overtime? Bobyb Jones, kept saying, hey babe, another overtime is just another game. Not thinking about where that was going to take us. I want to play against Duke. Because they had a slogan. We're number one, cause we try harder and everybody, of course said that whoever wins that game is going to win the championship and Kentucky beat Duke and we defeated utah. But it was just one game at a time.
Justin Forman: I think it's fascinating for our listeners to think about the context of it. There's always enjoy hearing the story that I think oftentimes we forget that in these big larger than life moments, it's still 18, 19, 20 year old kids out there and they're thinking one step ahead of another and one step at a time. And you get through one game after a game. You know, I think we've talked a lot about kind of what happened on the court, what coach meant the process and some of those things there. It sounds like that watershed moment wasn't realized at the time. But take us past the game. Take us now the years following it. At what point did you guys realize the significance of it? That was a watershed moment. The game has changed.
Nevil Shed: Let me tell you something. When the game was over, now you got to remember taking a step back. Now, today, the road to the final four. You know, all the flashes and the dunking and all that stuff, the. I mean, you know you know, the activities that I saw. Look at this. How did it come to that particular year of play? But the network was it was the biggest hype out there.
That was not there then.
How do you know? What do you know about Kentucky? We didn't know anything about Kentucky. Do you think Adolph Rupp was a racist? All I knew about Mr. Rupp Was that he had won the championship four years prior. He was called the baron of basketball. And I really didn't care.
Now, when the game was over, now, most of the time when you win a game or they have a ladder or something for you to cut the net. So they have that Willie Wordly set on my head, literally sat on my head so we could lift him up high enough so he can cut the net off. But it was just winning. Hey man, we're national champions. We're number one. We're number. I never even looked back. You know, I didn't even look back at Kentucky.
The most memorable thing in that game was that. Do you remember graduations? You could always find your parents in the audience. That was the first time that my father ever saw me play basketball. And I looked up in the stands and I saw my dad. And he was waving at me and I pointed to him. They have a picture of me pointing up in the stands right now. And I was saying to him, you know, I was saying. Thank you, Father. Thank you, Dad, for all the suffering, the things that you did for me as grown up. Thank you, God, for giving me the opportunity to have him come to that game to watch the best game of our lives. That's the thing that's outstanding to me. But when the game was over with, like you said. Oh, yes. You know, flying into El Paso, that was just fantastic. Thousands and thousands of people were there. But, you know, it really, really didn't hit me until years later. There were certain books and things out there that said Coach Haskins had just garbage cans of bushels of hate mail.
They were talking about how anybody can put a team together, certain, a misfit, a street jockeys, you know. And I felt bad about that. Coming back to New York with, you know, my national champion shirt. You know, we're number one. I felt like Wyatt Earp and a doggone shootin match. Everybody want to challenge us. You know? Okay. Yeah, yeah. You play for that honkey over there, you know. And then I had to play games with people, call me names. But it didn't bother me because I knew how to play against them. You know, you can't put nothing out there that I felt, you know, I couldn't handle. But, you know, I had to channel on, hey, you can call me anything that you want to call me. But I knew that that year, March 19, 1966, my teammates and I were national championships. Later on, coaches started to realize that, you know, African Americans, we can take a chance. Well, I think we opened the doors allowing minorities, if qualified, to attend any university of their choice, you know, because they wouldn't give us a chance. I think I was able to play against some of those top schools. I played against them in All Ameircan games. And some guys would come down to Rucker Park, which, you know, was the place to play in New York City. Oh, sure. You know, I played against some of us all stars in the Rucker with the Dr. J and Earl, Monroe, and all of guys, you know, we played against and played with them. So I thought I could've gone to one of those schools but we know it didn't allow that. But after that game, you can see how the league changed that all the Southwest schools and what have you began to give African American athletes a chance. And they were qualified. They were qualified back then. Yes, they can go to the Midwest. But, you know, look what you see now. It's not even thought of as a problem. I feel so good about it that I have two sons that went to collegeing and they did well, you know, not at the brackets that, you know, dad was. But, you know, they were able to make the choices to travel, you know, the seats. I enjoyed the school. I was scout one time in San Francisco and I was in the airport and I had my ring at a layover. And I had my ring on, this football player, one of the pro football teams said hey man. Texas Western. He said, Bobby Joe, Big Daddy Latin, the Shadow.
I said, The Shadow, that's me. That's me. And he said, Hey, man, I want to thank you. I said what are you talking about. I want to thank you, man, for what you guys did, because my dad was a great football player. And he never had the chance to show what you can do or what you guys did.
You know, you opened the door to give me an opportunity and my kid's an opportunity to go to any school of their choice, but they got to be qualified. That's a that's a blessing right there. And, you know, for me to look back and say that, you know, my kids don't have that problem. Other people's kids don't have that problem. We have the opportunity is the open door. But yet some of the rules are still stagnant. You know, we still going through a lot of hard times, but it was glory. But yet, even to the glory, there was pain. But as time has gone, you know. What I'm so proud of that, you know, no one has forgotten about that game. We sang I consider a very powerful song and the melody is still being caught, you know, through our society today, not just by basketball players, but all athletes, and they teach it in school.
You know, I teach at a high school. And the kids see me every day and they say, Coach Shed. Yeah, you played for the Celtics and yeah you won a national championship. And they forget about that. One time we showed the movie Glory Road and the part where they said, I'm looking for Nevil Shed, Willie Worsley, and about 100 of those kid's heads turned around. Say, that's coach Shed. And we see him every day. And then they start asking questions about how was it back then. You know what? Is it true that you went through this and went through that, you know, and you sit down and talk to them. I said Hey, look at you guys. You don't have to go through these things today. But there's a lot more than just playing the game. You know, you've got to put a big dose of faith in it. You've got to pray. You know, prayer produces power. You think I just got these things by playing in the street balls. You know, there a whole lot more to it. I always classify myself. Sometimes I say, you know, God, family, basketball and they all kind of coincide. These are the, you know, the family of God, you know, the basketball family. There you go. You know, I have faith factors in everything. And when you walk strong in faith, you don't have time to think about, well, if the team is all white. Well, if the referee is all white, you know, you're going for the gold. I have put myself in a position that I bought into that I can do all things through my lord and savior Jesus Christ who strengthens me. I say that all the time. And I know that without prayer. And I really believe in the prayers. And people say, well, how do you pray? That's it. How do I pray? You know, I talk to God. I have a special relationship with him. You know, he has put me in arena. I wish I can tell you some of the miracles that I have gone through, you know, through just believing that's what people say sometimes gonna happen. I don't worry about what they see, but I consider myself, you know, I'm not a reference, you know, I'm a living person and I could go back 54 years plus and tell them some of the trials and tribulations that I went through, my family went through. And you believe or not, They understand me. I'm still going through some of things now, but without the power of prayer and of faith and being consistent in what you believe then you know it's going to happen it's just gonna be slower for you to happen. We're going through hell right now. But I truly believe that that also shall pass. Amen.
Justin Forman: Neville, it has been a joy to be with. We love hearing you preach. We love the encouragement. We love the way that you reminded us of a time that was. And hopefully a time that never again will ever be. And that we can look back on some of the ways that society was and just how you and the team and everybody that was there was just an instrumental piece of the puzzle on God's hand is really setting a new course, a new direction for our country. And we're grateful the way that you reminded us that God's word is alive and active and that he speaks to us on that journey and he speaks to us in the ways big and small. So thanks for being with us.
Nevil Shed: Thank you so much.